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Topic neve: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
61. hozzászólás - 2010.05.03. 22:53:05
Here's some thoughts. Hopefully we'll get a good discussion going.

Number one, and I can't stress this enough, Miklos or some other admin should read the forums and engage in the discussion so that the community feels that our opinions are being heard and not just ignored. Looking back, I can see that Miklos used to post a lot more often than he does now, but even then, his posts were not the type that I am looking for here. Experienced players can and do answer questions like why player X can attack me but I can't attack him. What I would like to see is responses to suggestions, such as "I like that suggestion, and I will relay it to the appropriate people" or "That would be nice, but it would cost way too much to implement" or "I think that would make the game worse, not better". I'd even be happy with "Stop bugging me, you pathetic loser", as that would still show that he's paying attention.

Next, I am going to collect all the suggestions I have made in the past on this topic and put them here.

- Require each quiz question to be accepted by 2 out of 3 evaluators. This would require a lot more evaluators, so in practice it would probably mean accepting any and all volunteers to become evaluators. Miklos has explicitly rejected this idea in the past, but I believe his reasoning was flawed.

- Get more evaluators to cut down on the time it takes to get a quiz question evaluated. I think this one might have actually been done already. When I posted the suggestion, it was taking 3-6 days to get my questions evaluated. Now, it's usually about 1 day.

- Add a field for the evaluator to explain his reasoning / suggest fixes when rejecting a question.

- Add a field when submitting questions to say something to the evaluator that is not part of the question.

- Add controls on the hunt screen to allow users to flag existing questions for review by moderators. The existing process of posting the question to the Quiz errors thread is clunky and slow, and I'm sure most users never do it.

- Allow evaluators to set questions as provisional. Originally, my idea was this would send the question to the members to approve it or not. But I do buy Miklos's argument that the general player population has little to no interest in doing a good job of evaluating questions. So now I think this suggestion should be modified and combined with the 2 out of 3 idea. An evaluator should be able to approve or reject questions on their own if they think it's clear cut. But if it's a gray area, they should force it to go to a larger pool of evaluators.


Now, on to new suggestions.

- A pool of evaluators should be selected to draft explicit guidelines for what questions should be accepted and what should be rejected. Some guidelines have been posted, but since there is all this confusion, I think that is strong evidence that we need better guidelines. Once the guidelines have been drawn up, they should be posted on the forums. Thereafter, the committee should meet periodically to review the guidelines and make changes as necessary.

- For the categories of too specific and uninteresting lexical knowledge, the default should be to allow the question, not reject it. Especially if the correct answer is easily found using Google.


What does everyone think?
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
62. hozzászólás - 2010.05.04. 19:40:38
uh...the hungo evaluation is ...well...the hungos evaluate with different balances...
i have many snapshots of things that are really restrained to a group...
like...oceanography...(doctor degree)...history...(doctor degree)...biology...(doctor degree)...chemistry...(doctor degree)...
shall i continue...?
i am ROMANIAN...
now...ban me for speaking the truth...
and...hungos...you'll close the business for one simple reason...
what you are you doing is infringing many european laws concerning your lovely business...
it sucks...isn't it...?
the idea of quiz...is super...educational and everything...with one condition...RESPECT IT...
otherwise is just like the politicians asking for votes...and never put in practice the promises...

and...do not get mad for ..."hungo"...
be happy i did not used ..."bozgor"...which is more appropriate...
you know why...don't you...?
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
63. hozzászólás - 2010.05.04. 20:18:35
I write good questions about the most popular player in his sport, and they keep getting bounced! It's absolute bullshit, and I AM ready to take my L16 character, forfeit what I have paid so far (and yes, I am a paid premium member) and tell this whole fucking system to fuck off.

If I have to answer questions about Tom Goodwin and his Sword of Truth (and the thousands of other literature questions); sporting topics that I care about (especially regarding the NHL - the most International professional league in the world) have NO reason to be bounced. Especially when the quiz it littered with obscure Hungarian sporting trivia.

I am really, really, really, fucking pissed off right now. It's racial bias. It's an unreasonable topic bias (look at a newspaper and what are the biggest sections - Local News then Sports). And I'm not putting up with this crap any more. Get it fixed, or take it out - because it's broken.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
64. hozzászólás - 2010.05.07. 06:41:32
Testing something - if you can read this, please reply.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
65. hozzászólás - 2010.05.07. 12:15:19 (Válasz Aeschmann #62 hozzászólására.)
Idézet: Aeschmann - 2010.05.04. 19:40:38
uh...the hungo evaluation is ...well...the hungos evaluate with different balances...
i have many snapshots of things that are really restrained to a group...
like...oceanography...(doctor degree)...history...(doctor degree)...biology...(doctor degree)...chemistry...(doctor degree)...
shall i continue...?
i am ROMANIAN...
now...ban me for speaking the truth...
and...hungos...you'll close the business for one simple reason...
what you are you doing is infringing many european laws concerning your lovely business...
it sucks...isn't it...?
the idea of quiz...is super...educational and everything...with one condition...RESPECT IT...
otherwise is just like the politicians asking for votes...and never put in practice the promises...

and...do not get mad for ..."hungo"...
be happy i did not used ..."bozgor"...which is more appropriate...
you know why...don't you...?


I tend to disagree. You are not entitled to judge. I never played DoomLord until recently (1 week prior World 2 opening), but from what i've seen the Quizz has a major part in the game (one that i like).
Yes they are some questions that shouldn't be in here (that require somehow a trained person) but nothing it's perfect and they surely passed when they where testing the sistem. Nothing it's perfect.

So with this i want to tell you to just shut the hell up (i'm sure that some mod will be mad for this language i use right now) and if you dont like it just delete instead of insulting the people that try to give you a nice game.
I know first handed how hard is to make something like they did.

What annoyed me the most was the "i'm romanian" and "be happy i did not used ..."bozgor"...which is more appropriate..."
Do you have any ideea what "bozgor"means? I really hope that you get banned just for this, because from my point of view this is a major insult.

P.S.: I'm Romanian too if you wonder, but i stil have a litle respect for people.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
66. hozzászólás - 2010.05.07. 13:38:59 (Válasz Viridel #64 hozzászólására.)
Idézet: Viridel - 2010.05.07. 06:41:32
Testing something - if you can read this, please reply.


It's visible. For some reason, new posts take a very long time to appear in the thread view, but they appear immediately on the Last posts screen.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
67. hozzászólás - 2010.05.07. 17:34:09 (Válasz ImLittleJon #66 hozzászólására.)
Idézet: ImLittleJon - 2010.05.07. 13:38:59
It's visible. For some reason, new posts take a very long time to appear in the thread view, but they appear immediately on the Last posts screen.


Hmmm. My post is visible in the thread view now, but yours still isn't, and there's a gap in the numbers. So it's not just a caching delay.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
68. hozzászólás - 2010.05.11. 15:47:50
Can't the question and answer please be reviewed for proper spelling and punctuation before it is finally accepted?!
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
69. hozzászólás - 2010.05.16. 03:19:18
It was suggested I repost here to give Stekkos a chance to respond in a more applicable part of the forum.

Idézet: stekkos - 2010.05.13. 03:36:01
The hungarian version of the game is going on for almost a year more than the international version, has more worlds so the same players post more questions and it seems it currently has more players than the international. So culture has nothing to do with the ammount of questions.

As for baseball being popular or not, this is not the issue. Posting questions about the rules of a sport is not general trivia, is specific subject. Only those that want to learn to PLAY the sport need it. On the other hand, as LittleJon said, the questions should be about learning something, even if you will never play the sport. So, learning that baseball is a game involving hitting the ball with a bat is a good question, or what is called a home run. On the other hand, questions like ""In a normal formation (and including the Catcher), how many defensive players play in the Infield"", are too into the details, using words that you have to know baseball to understand the question in the first place. So the player doent learn something about the game, it just tries to figure out what the question is talking about to get the 10% from the hunt.

Another small issue is that Nemesis is posting these type of questions ONLY. Why not post about other subjects also, that will surely bring more variety to the quiz and get more questions evaluated as good.


1) I never said Culture was related to the quantity of questions; I said that culture should not be an excuse to EXCLUDE a question.
2) The rules of an international sport is no more specific than asking about the writer of the Sword of Truth or asking a L.O.T.R. questions about how many rings went to Elven Kings
3) If every question in the quiz was as simplistic as "what do you call the thing that hits a golf ball", that part of the game would be TRULY pathetic. As much as you don't care to learn about Baseball Infielders, I don't care to learn about writers or philosophers. While I don't dispute that your role as a Mod is more important than mine as a player, I do dispute the fact that you control a facet of the game based partially on your personal interests.
4) If I were a zoologist, and every question I asked was about animals, would you be tracking/asking this? Maybe if there were enough questions about topics I like (sports), I wouldn't feel the need to balance the quiz.
5) Google "Players Infield Baseball", and right in the Google text preview; "In the standard arrangement of a baseball team in the field, three players are in the distant outfield and six on the infield, the square baseball diamond ..."
6) According to http://mostpopularwebsites.net/51-100/, ESPN is the #80 visited website (and a lot higher if you take out the dozen international Google and several Yahoos and eBays). I didn't see any Arts&Lit sites in the top 100, yet there appears to be at least a 5:1 ratio on Culture vs. Sports questions.


I still have not read any legitimate reason for questions of this nature to be declined, aside from things that reveal personal or geographical bias'; neither of which are healthy in developing an International game.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
70. hozzászólás - 2010.05.22. 21:16:47
Idézet: stekkos - 2010.05.22. 19:26:46
No matter how we evaluate there will be complains. Personally i even thought of removing sports all together except the olympic games, world cup and the such which are trully global.


If that happens, I'll flip shit. The quiz has a myriad of questions about British-specific geography, Eastern-European everything, American history, region-specific literature and specific-group religion

You can't turn one category of questions into "international only" while completely ignoring the locational specifics of 90% of the rest of the quiz.

I used to have a lot of respect for you Stekkos, but your "holier than thou" responses and obvious anti-sporting agenda really aren't winning any points.

The whole system would work SO much better if Mods would get their collective sticks out of their collective asses and worry more about if a question was bloody RIGHT (wow, there's a new concept) rather than be worried about if a question may not be known the world over. NOBODY is going to know (or care) about everything in the quiz... But nobody should EXPECT to!

There should be 3 parts to a Mod evaluation:
If it's wrong or retardedly obscure (can't find on Google in 1 minute) or actually ambiguous - Kick it
If the grammar / punctuation / spelling is poor - Fix it
If the question is properly phrased, with an answer that is well-known or east to find (less than a minute on Google) - Pass it

The more Mods try to think, the more problems there will be. Making some document that contains any more than the 3 points above will do nothing to solve the problems.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
71. hozzászólás - 2010.05.23. 13:09:27 (Válasz Kendi64 #68 hozzászólására.)
Well they are checked for spelling, but due to the number of questions submitted some will slip. Thats why its good for players to report them
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
72. hozzászólás - 2010.05.23. 20:33:25 (Válasz stekkos #71 hozzászólására.)
Idézet: stekkos - 2010.05.23. 13:09:27
Well they are checked for spelling, but due to the number of questions submitted some will slip. Thats why its good for players to report them


And it would probably help if Mods were not English Second Language.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
73. hozzászólás - 2010.05.24. 18:58:04
Here's another thought. What gets people the most upset is when they pose a question that gets rejected, and they can't understand why. Sometimes it's rejected for a good reason, and if they get upset, oh well. But sometimes the question really should have been accepted. Right now, they can post to the my quiz question was rejected thread, but the best case scenario is an evaluator says it looks good to them, which isn't very satisfying. What if there were some kind of official appeals process that could result in a quiz question being retroactively approved, or at least pre-approved for re-submission? I think that could generate a lot of goodwill (or at least prevent a lot of ill will).
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
74. hozzászólás - 2010.05.26. 10:26:17 (Válasz ImLittleJon #73 hozzászólására.)
Ok heres a personal (not involving the rest of the evaluators) sugestion: I will open a topic that i will mention the reasons i rejected a question, including spelling mistakes.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
75. hozzászólás - 2010.05.26. 16:19:00
Hmmm. I was expecting a little longer document. For one thing, it looks like it only addresses the special group category (which is obviously the main source of complaints, but not really the only one). I think it would be good to address how bad does spelling/punctuation/grammar have to be to reject a question, what constitutes uninteresting lexical knowledge, etc. And even within the special group, some categories of questions are missing, like science. I'm guessing that general relativity is probably not good material for quiz questions, but high school physics is? Other categories worth mentioning might include art, music, current events, politics, and mathematics.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
76. hozzászólás - 2010.05.27. 13:34:13 (Válasz ImLittleJon #75 hozzászólására.)
We are not trying to cover every detail of the quiz, just to give enough information in order to reject as few questions as possible. Science therefore can follow the same rules like history or geography: Any science field is accepted as long as the answers dont involve being well studied into the subject to know it. It is not limited to highschool, ofcourse the higher level you go, the more difficult will be to find a question falling into that guideline.

One exception is current events. If current you mean something happening now, a few months down the road it will be history. So treat it like you are posting a history question.

The lexical and spelling issues have been adressed in the other post explaining what some of the evaluations mean.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
77. hozzászólás - 2010.05.27. 23:10:02
the ppl who run this game are bias against americans, good luck getting any question approved if your american, because the morons that run this game will say it a bad question no matter what it is. i'm so happy i don't pay to play.......
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
78. hozzászólás - 2010.05.28. 06:28:32 (Válasz slayer66 #77 hozzászólására.)
Idézet: slayer66 - 2010.05.27. 23:10:02
the ppl who run this game are bias against americans, good luck getting any question approved if your american, because the morons that run this game will say it a bad question no matter what it is. i'm so happy i don't pay to play.......


There are a LOT of US History questions in the quiz (far more so than any other single nation). The double standard is clearly in the Sporting realm.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
79. hozzászólás - 2010.05.28. 09:45:23
Idézet: Viridel - 2010.05.28. 06:28:32
Idézet: slayer66 - 2010.05.27. 23:10:02
the ppl who run this game are bias against americans, good luck getting any question approved if your american, because the morons that run this game will say it a bad question no matter what it is. i'm so happy i don't pay to play.......


There are a LOT of US History questions in the quiz (far more so than any other single nation). The double standard is clearly in the Sporting realm.


There are no double standarts. Granded, questions about soccer get more accepted but that is due to the fact is an international, not European game. Now questions about specific european clubs were a bit too freely accepted at first, now the same rules apply regardless the sport, as mentioned in the topic about the quiz rules.

And to add to Viridels very good comment about history, include also US made films, US authors, US scientists and breakethroughs, US geography. If i post about my countrys presidents or films, they will be considered special questions. I accept that not as bias, racism and the rest of accusations people throw around this forum. It is a fact that my countries history, geography, culture and the such are not so well known to the world as the US facts.
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Re: The Quiz Evaluation Discussion/Debate
80. hozzászólás - 2010.05.28. 18:04:56 (Válasz stekkos #79 hozzászólására.)
Idézet: stekkos - 2010.05.28. 09:45:23
Idézet: Viridel - 2010.05.28. 06:28:32
Idézet: slayer66 - 2010.05.27. 23:10:02
the ppl who run this game are bias against americans, good luck getting any question approved if your american, because the morons that run this game will say it a bad question no matter what it is. i'm so happy i don't pay to play.......


There are a LOT of US History questions in the quiz (far more so than any other single nation). The double standard is clearly in the Sporting realm.


There are no double standarts. Granded, questions about soccer get more accepted but that is due to the fact is an international, not European game.



I do draw issue with this statement. According to the Doomlord "Where are you from" forum thread, North America would make up 1/2 the total players (give or take 5%). Saying that soccer is accepted because it is international is a fallacy - We have (generally speaking, but with exceptions) NO interest in professional soccer. This is much in the same was as Europeans and "other" have (generally speaking, but with exceptions) NO interest in predominantly N.A. sports. I found your conversation with Nemesis COMPLETELY ludicrous, as Baseball - for the purposes of this game - is exactly as global as soccer. And with the European influence (not to mention the national leagues in MANY European countries) in ice hockey - I would suggest that ice hockey is the MOST global game for the geography represented by the users of this game! Yet the attitude seems to be "It's not played in Hungary or Romania, therefore it's not global" - this is why I keep getting pissed off.

Contrary to popular belief, the US is not the center of the world. Contrary to the belief of this game, Hungary is not the center of the world. There needs to be a better effort to make a WORLD server truly International.

ESPN is one of the most visited topical websites on the entire internet (places like Google / Yahoo / eBay are non-topical). Yet it's a quiz mandate to eliminate all but the most rudimentary sporting questions. But why is this? If it's acceptable for the quiz to "want to" teach me about Chemistry or Physics, why can't the quiz teach new sports to people as well? If I'm flipping thru the channels and I see Cricket, maybe if I knew more than the raw fundamentals (throw ball, hit ball, get ball to posts), I would watch for a few minutes. I'll never play the sport (most likely), but in learning about it, could that possibly increase my enjoyment and appreciation of it? REGARDLESS that Cricket is as popular in N.A. as Camel Racing.

Correct questions should be in, without prejudice - because we can all live with learning a little more about the world and cultures around us...
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