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Who do you think has bigger advantage in using points they "don't need"?
Hunters have better usage of Duel Points
Duelers have better usage of Action Points
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Name of topic: Hunter or Dueler?
likeddark22Male

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Hunter or Dueler?
1. post - 2010.10.31. 08:05:32
Please try not to vote only by your current character setting (yeah, hunters hate duelers and vice versa we all know it ) but try to think of a good reason for your vote and write it down.
I'm not sure is the current setting imbalanced or not, I feel that one side has the advantage but I also feel that any tampering with current settings would instead of fixing it, create even more unbalance.
This post was modified by dark22 at 2010.10.31. 08:06:05
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much likedquint

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
2. post - 2010.10.31. 09:21:50
Well I think that hunters have better use for DPs than duelers for APs. You see, if a hunter uses 5 APs for ducats, those APs will still be used for something. It might be 10% of his income per day, but that income is only realized when the APs are spent. There is no real loss of SE there, it's only some loss of time, his development will slow down a bit. But the development of duelers is implicitly slower, so having a hunter spend 5 APs daily on ducats would still let him increase levels faster than any dueler. On the other hand, a dueler only uses 5 APs a day, which means that the rest are truly lost. It's a mostly unused resource for duelers. Even if there was no upper limit to the APs one can store, it would never be possible to use all APs unless the dueler starts some heavy hunting. But then he wouldn't be a dueler any more. So if we look strictly at the usefulness of the resources, it is obvious that DPs are useful for both kind of characters, while only a very small amount of APs are of use for duelers.

But as a seeker of balance, I tend to agree that it would only be fair to have an option to use DPs wherever APs are required currently (other than for hunts, of course ), but also for the sake of balance, APs should be made useful for duelers too. It doesn't really matter how, but anything would be better than keeping them unused. But of course, this is only a theoretical debate, I don't really believe that anything will ever change in this particular area of the game, although I am sure that it is possible to make things better without shifting the balance even more.
This post was modified by quint at 2010.10.31. 09:54:33
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hatedpetel87

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
3. post - 2010.10.31. 13:37:13
The answer is: BOTH.

There is plenty of players like me who both hunts and duels and it turns for them very well.
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irritatingInv_

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
4. post - 2010.10.31. 14:02:01
the answer would be BOTH if we could do stuff with dp, just like with ap.
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averageViridel

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
5. post - 2010.10.31. 22:32:42 (Reply to post #4 of Inv_.)
Quote: Inv_ - 2010.10.31. 14:02:01
the answer would be BOTH if we could do stuff with dp, just like with ap.


Hunters Challenge with DP.

The answer is that the game is appropriately balanced. Yes, you can have an elite few players in either spectrum that will appear to shift the balance... But ultimately, if you average the top 5% of all Hunters and top 5% of all Duelers, depending on your definition of "Power" - which has a LOT of different meanings in this game - either one is equally successful.

There is no purpose to this poll.
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likeddark22Male

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
6. post - 2010.11.01. 23:19:58
Well if you think that your opinion is only one that matters than it is true, there is no point in this poll:)
I said in my post that I feel that tampering with the settings would create imbalance instead of fixing it, which is basically agreeing with you but...
I saw at least 3 different topics where the hunter/dueler imbalance was an issue, so I created this poll to gather options and general feeling about the issue, and not to "fix the game".
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much likedstekkos

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
7. post - 2010.11.07. 18:45:11
I also think there is no real imbalance since hunter or dueler is a player choice, not a game imposed one. And seeing the poll votes, just confirms that most players do not care about voting or generally using the forum
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averageD00ml0rdMale

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
8. post - 2010.11.07. 20:10:49 (Reply to post #7 of stekkos.)
Quote: stekkos - 2010.11.07. 18:45:11
I also think there is no real imbalance since hunter or dueler is a player choice, not a game imposed one. And seeing the poll votes, just confirms that most players do not care about voting or generally using the forum


Stekkos, done be disheartened by lack of forum activity, generally only 5 to 10% of any given "community" will post regularily on a forum, many reasons for this, launguage issues, fear of making fool of self, unawareness etc etc, it doesnt really indicate apathy, its just how forums work.

This forum does have the building blocks of growth tho, has a good core of knowledgable players particpating, a good variety of opinions and an easy entry to it.

with a bit of work this forum would become a very good tool for the players of this game and also the growth of the game, forums with lots of activity are great for search engines and will help growth with people able to find the game easily over time with higher activity (the more posts produced = more pages in SE).

if you want this forum to grow there are some easy to implement things that could assist,

1. Reward people for posting, this could be done a number of ways eg. with a special relic when somone reaches a certain number of posts, maybe one that converts a % of burnt stones to ancient stones would be most successful but could be extra aps, dps, cps anything that drives the game basiccaly.

2. An (internal player mail) mailout to each member just reminding them of the forum and pointing out the help they can get here and the other aspects surrpunding it, i know there is a link on our profile page but sometimes people just need a gentle nudge,

3. more moderators, even just forum mods, if people make the effort to post and they dont see a prompt response or no response at all it wont take them long to write the forum off as a non event, so a moderator for each thread group (help, suggestions, quiz etc) would help ALOT.

it takes time to develop a forum community but the rewards for the game over time would be well worth the effort put in by developers to assist the growth.
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likeddark22Male

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
9. post - 2010.11.07. 21:01:15
All good points, I agree strongly with the "core forum posters" thing, it was suprisingly easy to get any type of information on this forum that I could not find in game.
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much likedImLittleJon

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
10. post - 2010.11.07. 21:53:28 (Reply to post #8 of D00ml0rd.)
By far the most effective way to drive more traffic to these forums would be to feature them more in-game. Right now, all there is is the link in the sidebar and the link on the hunt page. What would be huge would be to put the last posts widget in the game. If the hunt page, instead of saying "While you are hunting, visit the forum!", it had this stuff:

Last posts

* Re: Hunter or Dueler? sent by: dark22
* Today, 21:01:15
* Re: Hunter or Dueler? sent by: D00ml0rd
* Today, 20:10:49
* Re: Bug reports sent by: Viridel
* Today, 20:09:39
* Re: Sugestion box sent by: ImLittleJon
* Today, 20:03:29
* Re: Hunter or Dueler? sent by: stekkos
* Today, 18:45:11

More


Preferably with a mouse-over showing the text of the post.

A few users don't hunt, but the vast majority of people would then see this widget on a daily basis. And if they see the content, they are far more likely to click through than just seeing a link.
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much likedImLittleJon

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
11. post - 2010.11.07. 22:45:50 (Reply to post #8 of D00ml0rd.)
Quote: D00ml0rd - 2010.11.07. 20:10:49
1. Reward people for posting, this could be done a number of ways eg. with a special relic when somone reaches a certain number of posts, maybe one that converts a % of burnt stones to ancient stones would be most successful but could be extra aps, dps, cps anything that drives the game basiccaly.


This is a tricky one, as it basically encourages people to post a bunch of useless messages just to get their post count up.

Quote: D00ml0rd - 2010.11.07. 20:10:49
2. An (internal player mail) mailout to each member just reminding them of the forum and pointing out the help they can get here and the other aspects surrpunding it, i know there is a link on our profile page but sometimes people just need a gentle nudge,


This is a good idea, but in practice, you only get about 1% response on these things. Still, 1% is more than 0%, which is what you get if you don't do it...

Quote: D00ml0rd - 2010.11.07. 20:10:49
3. more moderators, even just forum mods, if people make the effort to post and they dont see a prompt response or no response at all it wont take them long to write the forum off as a non event, so a moderator for each thread group (help, suggestions, quiz etc) would help ALOT.


The more official activity, the better. But until the traffic increases a lot, I think we're all good with Kethios and stekkos doing their thing, with occasional cameos by Miklos and Hatshepsut.
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averageD00ml0rdMale

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
12. post - 2010.11.08. 00:28:08
"This is a tricky one, as it basically encourages people to post a bunch of useless messages just to get their post count up."

when used n conjunction with good moderating its not such a problem, it will happen but its a fairly easy process to sort out.

"This is a good idea, but in practice, you only get about 1% response on these things. Still, 1% is more than 0%, which is what you get if you don't do it..."

well its a bit more than a mailout, was thinking more along lines of a newsletter type thing with little bits of info and good posts from forum i.e wonder how many players noticed the post from mikklos about the new buildings and potions "essences" coming out this week?, like a summary maybe weekly or soemthing, there is no magic that can develop a forum it has to be a combination of things, a few percent here a few percent there and when it reaches a certain point it will evolve into a thriving community.

"The more official activity, the better. But until the traffic increases a lot, I think we're all good with Kethios and stekkos doing their thing, with occasional cameos by Miklos and Hatshepsut."


Im not saying the current mods dont do a good job, im just pointing out that more moderators will help grow the forum on a few different levels, not the least of which will be prompt responses in each section. If its left to grow by itself then yes your right and the current lineup will work fine cos it will never be more than it already is, if growth is wanted and there are good reasons to devlop a strong forum then proactive is the keyword...
This post was modified by D00ml0rd at 2010.11.08. 00:46:17
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much likedPhalanxii

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
13. post - 2011.01.03. 03:59:08
Quote: ImLittleJon - 2010.11.07. 21:53:28
By far the most effective way to drive more traffic to these forums would be to feature them more in-game. Right now, all there is is the link in the sidebar and the link on the hunt page. What would be huge would be to put the last posts widget in the game. If the hunt page, instead of saying "While you are hunting, visit the forum!", it had this stuff:

This is the idea with the most potential in my opinion. Extending on your concept, instead of the most recent posts (which can sometimes be a little disappointing), you could have 3 or 4 'hot topics'. These could be anything like most posters, most viewed, hand picked by mods etc. That way, it would show the best the forum has to offer, and also the most active parts for new players to jump into. Please take this idea to the suggestion box because I think it will do a massive favour to the game and forums!

There is a fine line between educating players and spam. The mail out would have to be done perfectly to attract more players than it would put off so there is potential. I would suggest a one off mail when the player reaches level 5 (so they're interested in the game, they haven't had any mails regarding purchasing ancient stones lately, they've mastered the basics and want to learn more). Also, a little more emphasis on the forum wouldn't go amiss in the tutorial since you won't find an clan forum for a fair few more levels.

In terms of the community on the main forum, I think the traffic is all being held up in the clan forums. Players may ask a question, and the ones active on the main forum will be able to answer it, meaning they just cut off a player from the main forum. Whilst I think that is fantastic as it helps make a clan more... clanly, that is where most of the potential traffic goes.

I'm not sure on the rewarding players for posting, since it could very easily dilute the excellent quality of information we already have. I'm undecided how effective this would be, but rewarding a player with a berserker potion when they make 10 posts for the first time is an idea. After 10 posts, they are likely to be in a conversation or to post something worthwhile and it's unlikely they'll spam a whole 10 posts. Once a player makes the first 10 posts, they feel like part of the community as they see familiar faces and have contributed something.
There could also be a quest for registering on the forum (if possible to link our names to the in game characters).

And for the original question:
I think it's pretty well balanced! Hunters can use DP for crystal potions, duelers use AP for ducats. I think if anything, hunters have better usage, because they can use AP and DP and still develop as planned, whereas duelers can only use DP or else ruin their game.
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likedMartinBV

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
14. post - 2011.01.16. 17:45:26
I have a char in both w1 and w2, my w1 char is a dueller, while my w2 char is a hunter builder.

Untill level 25 my dueller hardly used any AP while my hunter used a little DP to keep his HP below 15%

At lvl 30 my dueller had build up his spectral manipulation and disadvanced development, so he could start hunting, and my hunter started using his DP on challenges, gaining an astonishing amount of crystal points.

So from level 30 non of them waste either AP or DP.
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everyone's favoriteTrunth

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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
15. post - 2012.10.20. 22:13:44
I admit, I haven't tried being a dueler, but the way I see it, duelers get a disadvantage because they rely on players to have SE. A hunter will always be able to find SE from creatures, but for a dueler, it's different. It depends on how many active players at your level you can find. It depends on how careful these players are about spending their SE before your 8-hour cool-down is up. Even the most skilled dueler would run into these problems.
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much likedMiklosMale
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Re: Hunter or Dueler?
16. post - 2012.10.20. 22:53:07 (Reply to post #15 of Trunth.)
Dueling only is a very passive strategy imho. It can be very effective on a new world early on where there are many new low levels, or when you have the energy harness skill. But honestly, we try to design the game so people can use all aspects of the game without getting a disadvantage, ie. both hunting and dueling. Thats why temple and other things require both actions and give nice rewards.
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