Hozzászólások - manunkind

nick7, yet people do not complain about minion attacks, where there never was a report and the attacker benefits while the defender suffers no harm.

prasinos, you forgot the part about players throwing a fit about a game mechanic that has so little impact on them that they don't know it's happening unless there are reports, and still carrying on even without reports. for all you know, subplasma attacks have ceased.

john wick, it very much did start with complaints over subplasma attacks. read the previous 70 pages. it recently restarted over the reports. do you know why the reports disappeared? maybe because of all the complaining over the previous 70 pages.

do you know what happens to low level players who don't like getting attacked but focus on their growth instead of complaining? they become too powerful to be attacked.

i neither said anything about banning nor did i mock anyone. incessant complaining leaves one vulnerable to mocking. the best way to shut someone up is to win.

Neo2022, this did not start out as a discussion about missing subplasma reports. this began with complaints and has returned to complaints. i would agree it's rarely been constructive, and it's not at all constructive at the moment.

a subplasma attack that literally does no harm should not be ruining anyone's game. if it does, look inward.

zodiac1, no, you don't. i'm sorry. i wish you well.

nick7, we have different strategies. i don't use subplasmas daily like gasgamar does. but gasgamar has every right to do so. and gasgamar's primary point couldn't be more spot-on. the best way to defend yourself is to get stronger. it's a pvp game, stop hiding, stop complaining, and play, play well. i look forward to the day when you all rise into my normal range, and we won't need subplasmas to test our strength.

on a personal note, bickering aside, if zodiac1 has some real life issues, i'm sorry and i hope they get resolved. the only mention of catacombs prior had been about avoiding subplasmas. obviously, there could be other reasons, but that wasn't the narrative we were hearing.

you guys have said repeatedly that you're hiding in the catacombs to avoid subplasma attacks.

zodiac1, nope never said that. your behavior is hiding in the catacombs instead of playing the game over a non-issue and then whining about it in the forum ad nauseum over years.

zodiac1, when did i say i'm opposed to more limits? i've even suggested them to Beholder in the past, despite the fact that they wouldn't serve my personal interest. what i said about limits is that they are unnecessary - because subplasma attacks are harmless. and frankly, if i were Beholder, i'd be worried about acquiescing to your demands because it's likely to reinforce your behavior. you want to know who's damaging the game? look inward.

zodiac1, as i said, there is no harm and no benefit to the subplasma target. so, no, i wouldn't say they are learning anything from the duel except perhaps humility.

cheating? the admins hid irrelevant information just as they never showed also-irrelevant information like minion defenses. no one is cheating.

i'd say "petty" is pretty generous way for me to characterize something that's completely moot that you've been complaining about for at least 7 years. subplasma attacks are less than trivial to the defender. they are literally nothing.

the level difference in subplasma attacks is irrelevant because there is no harm. so, no, i do not see any need for Beholder to make changes. subplasmas still function effectively at providing additional targets.

the level difference is important, however, for normal attacks because there is harm.

what makes you think Beholder concluded that players ever abused the subplasma option? i don't recall them saying that that's why they added the crystal clan. they were simply adding more ways for us to play. show me evidence otherwise.

if i were a Beholder admin, i'd tell you guys to stop the complaining or to put your money where your mouth is and walk. lucky for you, they are more diplomatic.

subplasma attacks are totally irrelevant to the targets - no harm, no benefit.
i think that every complaint about them is petty.
i will follow whatever rules Beholder imposes.
i will use whatever tools Beholder provides.

zodiac1, Miklos was responding to these same complaints back in 2016. subplasmas were harmless then as they are now.

Urul, here are two quotes from Miklos, a key Beholder admin:

Quote: Miklos - 2021.07.08. 15:43:51
When a player uses subplasma to attack you, you do not lose any soul energy, nor you suffer any other disadvantage. If you still dislike the mostly role-player concept of torture chamber, there is an item called Scarab of Death, which you can win on the auction and can protect you from this.

Miklos
Administrator
1178 post
Re: General complaint
811. post - 2016.06.04. 18:58:22
Hi,
Subplasma is just a tool to make people able to finish their daily quest who otherwise couldn't due to lack of opponents. Consider it a virtual fight, not a real one. You lose nothing, no soul-energy, no HP, nothing.its a virtual challenge where you can test how much damage you deal to the mightiest, without any risk.
This is totally different from real duels, where you can lose a lot - but there, fights are more fair, you can attack only in your attack range.
So please, take it like a fair sportsman, consider it a kind of cooperative action to help someone achieve something. Maybe one day he will help you in return. If these duel descriptions still disturb you, just ignore them. They have no effect on your gameplay.

Urul, if you can scroll back far enough, you can find Miklos suggesting players ignore subplasma attacks. he offered language to think of them like training or practice. the only programming change that i'm aware of is the removal of the reports.

valorian, volume of complaints doesn't change facts. fact: being dragged into the torture chamber benefits the dragger without consequence to the draggee. the SE benefit to the winner does not come from the loser. your unwillingness to accept facts does not change facts.

you cannot drag someone higher level than you into your torture chamber with subplasma. you can only drag higher level players into your torture chamber with normal attacks. you can, as you point out, theoretically escape a higher level torture chamber with subplasma attacks, however.

predator, i literally made the suggestion to Beholder through the in-game help button to add the scarab to the relics page. i just do so aware that that might not be the ideal answer you seem to think it is. it has unintended consequences. i do not approach this game solely to my own benefit.

i'm not going to restate my personal attack guidelines any more. scroll back if you want. i'm over it.

valorian, no, that is the factual answer: subplasma attacks cost the target no soul energy. that is not just how i see it. that is not just my opinion. that is how the game works. i'm not sure why you struggle so much with it.

we do not get monster challenge reports when our monsters are challenged. we can see on the monster challenge page who the most recent attacker was however. there is nothing we can do about it and there is no harm, so i don't really care either way. it's just a curiosity.

we do not get minion battle reports at all. our minions being attacked has no impact on us either. so i don't really care.

i understand your point about escaping the torture chamber, and how the absence of subplasma reports prevents the chance for you to try. but your entire tantrum about high level attackers on low level opponents means you would never escape anyway. and if you did, you would receive no reward for doing so, since you received no penalty for getting dragged in, and you received no penalty for the subplasma attack in the first place. this is all about an emotional principle rather than actual game impact. so to be clear, i think you have a point about seeing subplasma attack reports in order to have a chance to escape. i also think it's statistically irrelevant and find your continued perseveration on it fascinating.

i don't know how many times we can have the same conversation. subplasmas increase range for attacks without harming anyone. any attacks on low level players are entirely harm-less. subplasmas do not encourage attacks on low level players. they allow harmless attacks beyond normal range. your insistance that low level players are specifically targeted is simply incorrect, yet you stick to that line anyway. you seem comfortable in the role of victim.

valorian, being dragged into someone's torture chamber costs you nothing, as in zero, nada, zilch.

Dionysos,

4. [sounding like a broken record] a high-level player cannot "take" ANY soul energy from a low-level player, period. the only way for the high-level player to attack a low-level player is with subplasma, and subplasma attacks steal no soul energy.

3. low-level players planning to duel should carry some soul energy on them so their rewards don't get capped on their normal attacks.

zodiac1, you are conflating issues. i was talking about the unintended consequencs of making normal duels harder by making the scarab of death easier to acquire. draining SE in a duel and stealing SE in a duel are two different things, and neither is possible with subplasma. the only reason i see to attack with subplasma is the torture chamber, and only active players offer value in the torture chamber. for the torture chamber, how much SE they are carrying is irrelevant - it's how much they earn that day. for normal attacks, carried SE provides a cap in how much you are able to acquire.

valorian, i'm going to take a wild guess here that the reason is because - just like minion battles ...for which there is no report - subplasma battles cause no harm. so in game terms, subplasma attacks don't matter to the target. the only way you even knew it was happening was the report. think of it like an exhibition if you'd like. Beholder was probably hoping that an attack that did no harm and couldn't be seen would be something you'd all stop complaining about. but they underestimated your desire to complain. despite no evidence it's even happened in months, here you all are, still.

Urul, your earnings get capped by what you're carrying. you don't magically get more just because you're carrying more if they don't have it. that's my understanding anyway. good luck!