There is an effect in the game where the distance between top characters get bigger and bigger. There are several reason for this, some players use up all the resources, but most not and fall back. There are some unfortunate results of this. First, the top characters run out of pvp targets. Second, some things are not really designed if there is 5 lvl difference between 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. For example it is not very funny if on the championship you have to fight your own clones. Thirdly, latecomers has no chance to fight their way to the top.

To solve these problems, we add a modifier to the experience needed to level up for the top 50 characters. The 1st character on the top list will need 100% more xp to level up, the 2nd will need 98% more etc. the 50th will need 2% more. This way, characters close in level to each other will have only a slight difference, so the power balance will not fail, but it will tighten the field a bit.

This change will take effect approx. in 1.5-2 weeks. We will modify a few additional things too:
1.) In clan quest to get the bonus you will need the old xp, not the new xp, so getting max clan quest will not get more difficult.
2.) In the temple of doom, we will modify the task "advance 2 levels" to "gain (x) XP" where (x) is a bit more than needed to level up (without the above modifier).
3.) from lvl 160 and up xp needed to level up will not increase exponentially.

Miklós,
This effect is caused by the distortion resultant from DD/EH. If you don't like it, maybe you should just eliminate DD from the game. Otherwise, we should just get used to this distortion and live with it.
Your proposal is absurd to me because you are simply giving the ability for the number 1 player to have DD 50 and EH 50 at the same time!! Or have DD at 75. I think this is a terrible solution.

Cruel.

I agree with cruel.

It completely distorts the SE per XP ratio in favour of the top 50 rather than allowing others to catch up.

If their SE gain was also modified down then this effect will be removed but will bring the player back to a state of play that is less enjoyable. Back to square one.

As they say, it is lonely at the top which provides the 'catch up modifier' for the rest.

This change should be cancelled!!!

I don't understand this change how distorts the SE/XP ratio, nobody will more stronger after this. The resource system doesn't change so nobody will gain more DP or AP, the top characters will remain longer on the same level, they gain more duel targets, which is not equivalent with more SE.
But don't forget this change affects the top 50, where everybody needs more XP in different ways (100% more, 98% more, 96% more, etc.). Rest of the players can catch up, and when somebody reaches top 50 he/she will slow down.

Cruel01 i don't understand why are u complaning when you are in the top 50, so this is good for you too.

But it does change the SE/Xp rario greatly for the top players. If I were the highest palyer in a world, I needed 1000 XP to advance, and my SE ratio is 100/Xp gained, with the new system I basically would double those numbers. Now if it takes 2000xp to advance to the next level; my ratio would be 200/XP gained. This is what DD is, a way to advance more slowly to build your character stronger for the level that they are currently in. But if you slow the top, the top 50 could then switch to EH and get the benefit of both DD and EH. As a matter of fact they could get up to quadruple the effect of DD, because for someone not in the top 50 it is only a 25% decrease, not a 100% decrease graduated to your position. Also I would assume that the people that are in the top 50 do not have DD, that is why they are in thier current position. So in essence this is a way to help EH players "level" the playing field. I think in the long run though this will give the group at the top a huge advantage as DD players catch up to them.

So yes Tallia, people will not get more AP/DP, but the SE ratio of those points would increase dramatically depending on your position.

Pointless to discuss about it, you won't understand what i mean.
I can't express my self in english well enough, to explain what i want.
This is a good system, don't whine about it.

Tallia,
The system is not good.
Top 50 players (including myself at 25th position) will have the benefits of both EH and DD. Or even DD at 75. That will make them unfairly more powerful.

Cruel.

Actually, the SE/xp will remain extacly as it is now. The SE/level however, will increase, meaning that people at high level will gain more SE within a certain level.
Now, the question is: Does this matter?
Too some extent it does, since people will get more SE within a Championship bracket, and players higher in this bracket will gain more SE before leveling (potentially out of the bracket). But, the "new" handicap system for the Championship means that staying (and winning) multiple times in the same bracket is not that good anymore.

Also, even if part of the problem that is causing the problem (few high level players) is the DD/EH mess, there are a few other things causing this problem.
1) Since XP are "bad", players do not spend their resorces. This is a fundamental problem with the game, and this measure will not remedy that in any way. The benfit from levelling should be bigger than it is (at the moment you don´t even get a new Legend after level 80-something)
2) Premium players (PP) get extra AP. Extra AP means extra XP...which is bad, because you level away from everyone else and loose pvp targets. So what is then the point of Premium? Naming your pets?

I don´t think this measure (increasing the XP needed for the top 50 to level) will actually fix the underlying problems causing the problem (large level distance), but it might band-aid the problem (perhaps even for a long time).

@Tallia
It doesn´t matter if a game change is good or bad for you personally, if you think the change is bad for the game one should complain.

Actually, SE/XP is irrelevant for the top players. This ratio was "invented" to model your efficiency compared to other players if you are in the mid-field. Being stronger than players of the same or near same level is critical so people from above are less likely to defeat you.

However, on the top, the case is different. No one is attacking you from above, and you are not trying to slow down to avoid attackers from above. Actually, instead of SE/XP, pure SE total is what measures your characters strength. And this value will NOT change with the above modification.

People in the top will not get more powerful or anything.

Ok the second question is, how does this affects players "below" them. Please note that between players who are in attack range, the difference will be only a few percentages. So yes, the 30th guy will advance a bit slower than the 40th. But this will not result in advantage, quite the opposite. The 40th will be able to catch up with the 30th, and as the level and the equipment level difference decreases, that makes up for the better SE/XP. This will also grant a chance for everyone to get to the top.

This is a quite complicated game theory problem, we argued a lot about it, done many calculations. And it seems this is not going to put any player at disadvantage, but it makes the game more enjoyable for many, and it also increases competition.

For me its whatever, I like that you actually started to care about this issue. On the other hand, and this is really important, you should understand, that you (not you Miklos, but you as Beholder or all Doomlord team) created DD and EH which actually caused this problem and situation as it is now. Moreover, some players DO LIKE to fall behind or be way in the top and they dont complain and also they dont want any changes.

For me, there are few options:
- cancel both EH and DD
- cancel one of them and give the remaining to all players. (generally, Id vote that all players have DD, coz it would slow things down, but if all had EH, there would be more higher levels and more strong and crazy eq and characters etc. and I think more fun, not to say more money for you because people would level faster and buy new stuff more often).
- implement this XP thing you are suggesting, but it will only put the problems aside or diminish them, but not solve them I think
- combine canceling DD/EH with time-limited implementing of this XP scaling

Hi,

I didn't want to make a lot of comments; but after thinking over.... reading and re-reading; I can't but make 1 statement.
Yes the "fun" of this game is you can make your own choice EH/DD, that makes DL kind of unique.
Yes some of us (also I ) do like to "semi-spider" = fall back; others hate this way of playing .... ok, so be it.

W3 is showing us a player "Driftwood"; now at #2; for sure a dedicated EH-player... he started at the same period/same level as I did (Elvenwind --DD-player-- @#86); but that is just the fun of this game... hopefully I don't have to say; it "was" the fun of this game.

So; I'd say : "Never change a winning horse."; but haye; who knows... perhaps Beholder Ltd. is having the opinion that this hors is loosing

Regards,
E.

Two players, both exactly the same build including all skills and ability are level (let's say) 70.

Player 1 stops advancing/playing for a period of time.

Player 2 continues to play as ranked number 1 and then stops advancing at level 90.

Player 1 begins advancing again, hunting exactly the same as player 2 did and developing skills/ability/equipment in exactly the same way until they are also level 90. Obviously player 1 was not ranked high during the advancing of level 70 to level 90.

Both characters are now level 90 and have exactly the same build process. They should both be exactly the same (minus the small random variance) but instead player 2 is a far stronger character. This is NOT RIGHT.

How about this, and I admit I haven't completely thought this through.

Any character x levels behind the rank # 1 (don't know what x is), gets and SE and XP increase based on the percentage difference in level. That is, if a character hunted and would have got 1000SE and 10 XP but is 10% behind the leader then they get 1100SE and 11XP instead. Effectively they are gaining ground on the leader(s) with every XP generating event without the penalty in SE.

Again, I say I don't like the proposed change. For a late starting character my benefit was that I can still develop as others did but will never be able to do so if the change ois implemented.

Didn't spell check, so apologies for any errors.

Borecdan: you are right. Although I dont think EH was a mistake (after a while, it is very hard to find opponents who can give SE from duels because they learn to hide it), but DD was. Actually on newer worlds and newer versions (Hungarian world5, Russian, Slovak Doomlord) there is no DD. But we can't remove it from existing worlds. We can, and we did balance it.

But the above problem is not related to DD. Even if there would be no DD, people who always spend all APts (a minority) and those who sometimes play would get further and further apart. In many games, this is solved by having unlimited attack range. Ie. the 2 years uber character can attack the lvl 1 newbie (and benefit from it). We choose a different path, and I still think this is better.

People sometimes say XP is bad. Going ahead weakens your character. Although I disagree with these statements, the above change helps the matter. Getting more xp will actually improve your SE/XP now so people might be less motivated to fall behind.

Rzagos. In your example, player 1 stops playing and player 2 continues playing for the entire time. So player 2 benefits from daily activities like wheel of fortune, duels, quests etc. Also because player 2 started playing later, he had more targets, he could use bonuses from an existing clan, possibly he could take advantage of developments which didn't exist while player 1 played. So even while player 1 received a bonus while he played, I believe that by the time player 2 catches up with him, player 2 will be more powerful.

Idézet: Miklos - 2012.05.25. 09:15:26

About this. As far as I can see this has a lot to do about the Championship. Relatively stronger characters (better SE/Xp) could easily win the Championship, becoming even relatively stronger. Now, the new handicap system in the championship has done something about this, and it is not as true as it used to be.

The thing I am most....annoyed about this whole thing is that there has obviously been quite some debate on the Hungarian forums about this change. This has been discussed and debated, but only after decisions have been made it is posted on these forums. We (the international players) have no chance of input, no possibility of making our voices or opinion heard. It feels a bit like being treated like a second grade customer.

Could it be possible to give EH players the ability to attack ppl under 15% HP like crystal clan members have...this way it would become a little bit less difference between EH and DD

Idézet: Miklos - 2012.05.25. 09:15:26

Well, it is refreshing to realize developers are fixing this mistake. I just don't see why it can't be introduced in running worlds. Just warn all players that in 90 days (to give enough time for everyone to get the proper equipment) DD will be replaced by EH. So if you are at DD50, it will be converted to EH50.

dodo,
Your suggestion is a stretch hehe. I have been complaining for a very long time about how DD is favored, but that would be too much!

Cruel.

i dont think that DD was a mistake, because of my way of playing at the beggining i ended up with weak character so to compensate that i switched to DD so i would advance slower and get stronger character at my level. If DD was removed from the game players that are trying to get stronger will end up as farms for EH people that did not make much mistakes in way they leveled up.

the biggest mistake is that you are trying to compensate something that does not need compensating, the thing you should do so all will be satisfied is:
1. make spacerift potion cheaper
2. AA skills that are reset when you switch from DD to EH or from EH to DD should be made inactive so people will not lose AA points, and activated when we switch back
3.make a new skill - battle master ( lv. of skill x (100/your rank)) - idea is that to addition of SE you take from other players you get bonus SE depending on your ranking

my opinion is that the biggest mistake was that you are trying to compensate and with that this skills dont have meaning, everything would be ok if only spacerift potion would be cheaper and AA skills dont reset when we drink it.
With only that most of things would be ok

It is fantastic that miklos has responded but it sounds like the decision is already made.

Is it still worthwhile adding ideas or not?

@ Rzagos,
@ All,

with respect (I mean that); I think the descision already was made; that was also the main reason why I didn't want to interfer (in the first place) into this discussion...
After all; Beholder Ltd is the rightfull owner of this game and can do or not do what they like to do ... regardless of what our ideas or feeling are about it.
Just this short statement, though I'm NOT in favor of this change, the develloper seeks for a better income; and one of those (recent) actions is also this kind of change... end of statement.

They got to do what they got to do.

@ Miklos,
thanks anyway for explaining us what will happen/change.

Regards,
E.

Sbart: You are right about that whenever a change is made, it would be wiser to discuss it in advance with all players, not only those who play on the original server. The reasons why we do it this way: the population of the original servers is like 10 times than the population of all international servers combined. So its not about Hungarian, or English, or Russian. It's about asking the 90% of the players about it. Yes we could get a better result if we ask 100%, but it would not modify it. And it is much better (for us) to do this on a single forum on a single language, than coordinating a 4-language multi-vote-discussion.

Cruel01: Trust me, it is never wise to nerf things or take away things from players. I make games since 20 years, and learned this lesson. DD might be an unbalanced thing, but if we remove it, that will cause more harm than good. It is better to make the other side more appealing so people switch on their own. Btw it IS possible that we change DD so it does not give less XP but it gives more SE, but this has to be discussed later.

Piko: making it super-easy between DD and EH would be a huge mistake. As a result, everyone would always hunt with DD and always duel with EH, the game would slow down more, and players would be forced not to do things because its "suboptimal".