Guys,

I have decided to make this post because most of us veterans feel the game is getting emptier and emptier, which may eventually lead to us all leaving. As I believe none of us want this to keep happening, I propose we present ideas to Miklós to avoid this and, even more important, to bring new blood to the game. I will start with a couple, but it would be good if everyone could contribute.

1 - The quiz system --> In my opinion, this is a big deal breaker for most people. I may be wrong (I will create a poll right after just to make sure), but I believe most people find it boring. And as nobody wants to miss that 10%-22%, we are all forced to do it. My suggestion for this is to simply create the option for people to do it or not, without involving any SE. In any words, everyone would automatically get the 10%-22% even if opting not to answer the questions. How about the people who like to answer the questions? They would still be able to do so, but with no extra SE. Maybe a title could be created for those who answer questions. For example, whoever answers 1,000 question could add a Professor in front of his name, 10,000 would grant a Master title, 100,000 a Doctor title. Something along those lines. AND THIS OPTION MUST BE FREE!! Why? Because I am strongly convinced that most people give up the game very early (and before buying any AS) because of the quiz system.

2 - The Mentor System --> This was a promised development that never happened. I really like it and I believe it could boost the game. New players can get lost and frustrated. It would be good if they had guidance. Correct me if I am wrong, but for the Mentors, just a small prize would be enough (a Mentor Medal giving small percentage of SE + AS like Recommendation for example).

3 - Lvl 100 W4 --> The lvl 60 W4 is cool, but it's not enough. You should do both lvl 60 and lvl 100 (one every semester). This is where the Mentors would really shine. The world would be created 48 hours earlier (it would last slightly longer then). First 48 hours would only take Mentors. After that, every new player would enter a pool where they would be available for the Mentors to pick them. And the Mentors would guide them through all the char creation, including the distribution of Abis and Skills. I am sure this could add several new players and in decent levels. It's certainly much better than expecting new people to start at level 1, fight a lot of "zombies" and stick to the game through 1 year before finally starting to have some fun.

That's what I have thought so far. Any other ideas?

Cruel.

Hi,

§1: Though it was a motivation to start the game; it really became a burden after a while... .
§2: What about the option; where a "starting player" can give a medal/contribution to his mentor(s) eg. every 15 levels for eg. 6x ?
§3: Anyone made a comparison with a (good) DD-player? A starter from level 1 till 60 in DD versus the one who made the lvl 60-W4 transmutation ?
E.

Thank you very much for your suggestions!

I must agree with you about the quiz. Originally, this was a good idea for start, to give players something to do while they wait for the hunt run. Right now, I can't tell if the game would be better with it, or without it. Maybe we should just do a test, turn off the quiz for some new people, and turn it on for others, and see what are the statistics. I certainly agree that after a while it becomes a burden for veteran players. We are planning to add some way to entirely skip them and still claim the reward. This should have some pre-condition, like having quiz medals.

The Mentor system - we are doing everything, it just takes time. If you have any specific ideas how to do this, it would be greatly appreciated, including how this would work on W4. Primary concern is that the system can't be exploited by people repeatedly starting lvl 1 toons just to beef up their main.

Lvl 100 W4 - first time someone brings this up, you sure about this? people who start at lvl 60 can lvl up to 80-90 by the end, surely a good start

The quiz thing is good. I think you should think about that people with 10k+ good answers or 12 quiz medals or VIP membership could still answer the questions but without any affect on the income. So i would create a button under settings 'I want quiz questions during hunts' if this is not ticked/pressed than default would be auto-good answers. (or something like this)

I think that you should offer the option for new players to gain levels faster. Or offer inactive players' characters (or just clones).
I know that starting from level 1 into top50 is mission impossible.
If a player starts playing (regardless what game are we talking about) and he/she sees a toplist would like to see him/herself in the top in the future (at least would like a little chance making it possible).

What success can a newcomer get now?
check the toplist a level 1 can be on page 319 (there are 2000+ pages each with 25 names)
For a level 1 what can you offer/promise? Paying for AS but no real activity around him/her (OK I don't have stats about activity but just take a look at the results http://world2.doomlord.net/index.php?m=viadal&sub=eredmenyek look at the category No.1- Akosi the sole character there; No. 2-3 - no one; No. 4 - 2 players

So i thought that maybe starting a 4x speed game in our world or if it's not possible, just for one time, offer every player to carry their character to our world. Is there anyone who would ask for this? What do you think? (when the next will start you should send out a poll to the players) (a level 100 world sounds interesting!!)


Maybe you should create an option for different languages for example when i log in i have to select the world. why not try to have an option to select language as well.

I hope you can get it!

On the Hungarian World5 (and on new worlds, like the French too) we have the "inspiration" effect. The later you start, the more SE/XP you get for hunts. Also the goal of lvl 60 world is to help people catch up. We can also start a new permanent world for new players.

Quiz:
Despite the small number of votes, the other poll showed most people dislike the quiz questions. And, as I said, the actual number of dislikes should be even higher, given most people who didn't like the system have already quit.

I don't think forcing people to have 12 medals before getting the option to eliminate the questions is a good idea. Why? Because I firmly believe several people quit the game because of them just before falling in love with Doomlord like the rest of us I like the idea of deactivating the questions as a test. Then just compare the percentage of players starting at level 1 that reach level 30. I am willing to bet that the percentage will be considerably higher for the ones without the questions.

As I said in my original post, the prize for the quiz should be minor, such as the titles from the Pyramid of Glory. Bragging titles only and nothing more. This would make everyone happy, as people who like the questions would still be able to do them, while people who don't like them would not be forced to.

Mentor:
You have raised a good point Miklós. It would be hard to avoid people from trying to mentor fake chars just to get the reward. I think the best way to solve this is to create a strict rule saying whoever does this will be severely punished. Something like losing 50 points in each ability stat, which would be WAY more expensive than the prize. Then leave it subject to the GM's discretion to define whether there is a cheat or not. And use all tools at your disposal to enforce the law. And I am not talking about checking IP addresses only. I am talking about empowering the GM to count how many messages are exchanged between mentor and pupil just to check to see if the mentor is actually mentoring. The goal is to make people afraid of cheating to the point it simply becomes not worth it.

The same logic would apply to lvl 60/100. And this is how I think it should work: world would start with everyone in the catacombs. Players would choose between Mentors/Pupils (or none of course). In the first 24 hours, Mentors and Pupils would pair. How? I thought something like a duel page where Mentors and Pupils can see each other and exchange messages until they decide who to go with. You could also add special team arenas (or maybe championships, as 2v2 constant duels may be too much) for Mentor/Pupil to fight together). The prize for those championships could a special championship medal, granting +2 to Criticals to the Mentor and +20% XP and +40% SE on hunts for the Pupils (following your idea of increasing the SE/XP ratio for lower level players). That's for EH. For DD, maybe a little less than +40% SE. You should do the math and see how much is fair enough (you created the DD mess, now you figured how to handle it )

Lvl 100 W4 vs Lvl 60 W4:
I think we should have both, making it a Clan W4/Lvl 60 W4/Clan W4/Lvl 100 W4 cycle. This way we would be able to populate a bigger range of levels. The main concern here is not allowing the very top players to lose all fun in the game, as their enemies decrease constantly when some decide to quit. Another alternative is to increase the modifier for top 50 from 2% to 4%. Perhaps even make it active for top 100, starting at 200% and dropping 4% to 196%, 192%, etc... But going back to W4, Wormtail makes a good point. The amount of SE given is just too little. I have just checked the best Lvl 60 players in the server and here are their stats:

509. Demien' 60 Ruby Epik 1948 1554 4.3M
510. Kili 60 Sapphire Azure 1916 1540 9.5M

Here are the stats of my recently created Lvl 60 char:
7. Brazil Hexa 2014 60 Diamond Idayimani 1273 1504 2.3k

It's a GIGANTIC SE difference. Of course these are pretty good players and people don't deserve to just get a free pass to be like them, but my initial assessment is that they have used more than triple the SE we get in W4 (please correct me if I am wrong). You need to rethink the fair value for W4. The same logic would apply to a Lvl 100 W4.

do we really need a reward to coax vets into mentoring?

We are already trying to fix quiz problem, new Horde Wars event will have reward "quiz orb" if you have it, you dont have to answer quiz questions

mentor: in my 20 yrs of game design experience, preventing an exploit by punishing it's use is always less effective and harder to enforce than not allowing it in the program itself. I will think about a few solutions.

Will reply on the rest later, need more thinking.

Quote: Miklos - 2014.05.04. 22:16:50

I agree, but how will you block it in the program. You may be able to block usage with same IP, but this is easy to bypass.

@manunkind
I believe a medal granting the same benefits of Recommendation is good enough.

Cruel.

because every recommendee is likely to select the recommender as a mentor, practically speaking, the mentor bonus would double the bonus for recommendations.

Quote: Miklos - 2014.05.04. 22:16:50

The relic from the Horde wars Event is nice, but in my opinion not really "enough". The reason is that this "solution" is only available from a specific Event, while the "problem" is universal. I see several ways of implementing a similar benefit to all players (i.e. skipping answering Quiz questions):
a) Keep the relic and also make it available to buy. This could be for 1) ancient stones, b) soul diamonds/relic shards/SE/platinum(/Horde trophies) (i.e. any non-premium currency)
b) Everyone gets the Relic when they fulfill some form of criteria (8/10/12 Quiz medals?)
c) Implement a new Clan building that gives the same benefit as the Relic

Personally I would think that a2 is the solution, maybe with the requirement to buy it for other currencies higher than for Horde trophies (6 Quiz medals and 5000 Quiz questions?)?
i do not think it is a good idea to sell it for AS, because the players we are trying to retain is all players, not just premium players.

I totally agree with you!

The orb should be FREE. There are 2 goals when eliminating the questions:
- Avoid old timers from getting TOO bored with them
- Avoid newcomers from quitting the game simply because they dislike the questions
And the second target is WAY too important to link the orb to anything hard to accomplish. It should be definitely purchasable with SDs.

Cruel.

P.S. I already got mine and I think it should b fixed not to even show the questions and also not to display that message saying "Unfortunately, you did not answer..."

Used my new Orb today for the first time... damn I need to find more archgems LOL.

As for making it aa freebie, I strongly disagree. It should be taken as a reward for completion of something, not as a "here ya go son.. have fun" thing. Otherwise get rid of the quiz entirely and bump up the hunt SE by 150-200 per hunt to make up for the lack of need to do any questions at all and foregoing the amount received for answering the questions correctly on the quiz page.

Does this mean I am still answering questions? YES!!!!! I gain 900 SE min after answering 30 questions.... and it has been so long since I drew down on that bank that the last time I checked it was just over 500 SE. Not a small amount, not a great amount.... but say you have one Easter egg available... need 2100 SE to round out a build of 100K...... renounce 3 quiz questions? or break the egg?

So, it's been over one year since I created this thread and nothing has happened. Game keeps losing veterans and the influx of new players is close to null. Are we doing something about it or are we letting the game die?

Mid-May championship had the below players fighting for it:

Cat 4 - 1
Cat 5 - 2
Cat 7 - 1
Cat 8 - 1
Cat 9 - 2
Cat 11 - 1
Cat 14 - 2
Cat 15 - 3
Cat 16 - 4
Cat 17 - 3
Cat 18 - 1
Cat 19 - 3
Cat 20 - 4
Cat 21 - 5
Cat 22 - 3
Cat 23 - 4
Cat 24 - 5
Cat 25 - 2
Cat 26 - 2
Cat 27 - 5
Cat 28 - 7
Cat 29 - 15
Cat 30 - 4
Cat 31 - 14
Cat 32 - 19
Cat 33 - 3
Cat 34 - 2

As you can see there are only 10 players up to cat 14 (lvls 35-38), which clearly shows the game hasn't been able to attract new players. Several suggestions have been made to address this issue, but nothing seems to have been implemented.

The idea to add new players at level 60 is excellent, but it faces 2 major problems:
1 - The SE given is very low.
2 - First, you need to create interest in the game so that lower level guys decide to create a char in W4 in the first place. In my opinion, changing the way clans work and allowing newbies to join veteran clans would be fundamental to make this happen.

Anyway, the point is that all veterans love the game and we are all very concerned with its future. We have just had a veteran loss in our clan and all losses really hurt the game badly, as there is no fresh blood to keep it going.

Cruel.

there's no more efficient mentoring strategy than getting new players into active, veteran clans.
but with the soul well investment so high, i've had to advise new players NOT to join us right away.
with the current system, they're better off in a smaller clan with a smaller soul well as they grow
...if they can find one.
most never end up growing enough before they quit.

Veteran loss, who?

Getting new players into the game would be very nice, even necessary if the game is to "survive".
From a businesses point of view, I think that the problem is that beholder has a large share of the Hungarian market in these types of games, but the international market is a lot more competitive, and for that reason the international version of Doomlord is not that successful. Lucky for us, Beholder still updates the original version and translates the changes to us.

About how to make the game attractive for new players:
1. Marketing. If people do not know the game exists they will not join.
2. Make people join at a reasonable level. Level 60 is probably a good level, but as Cruel points out the SE given for is low. I also think that the task of assigning all that SE in Abilities/Skills that a new player knows very little about is daunting, and would suggest a different "character creation process" in the following steps:
a) Choose archetype. This would be something like "Dueler", "Hunter", or "Balanced".*
b) Depending on the choice from a, gain certain pre-set values in Abilities and Skills. Also gain Pets (with Skills), SE built (and Luck), a minion (or two?), some Medals of Doom, Equipment (level appropriate), some of the Relics you can buy for relic coupons (which would depend on a), and some expendable resources (Crystal points, Soul diamonds, BoAS, potions, etc)
c) Choose whether you want the Infection up or down.
d) Gain a small-ish amount of SE to round out the Character.

Since you are not given free reign of the SE, it should be easier to balance such a new character so that it is powerful, but not too powerful.

e) Place the Character in a Clan. Essentially, create 4 Clans (one for each Horde), all lead by an NPC (which cannot be removed from the Clan). This Clan should have some essential Clan buildings appropriate for the level, and the Forum of these Clan should contain useful information (such as how you develop your character, how does Events work, etc etc) in locked posts.
It should be possible to develop these Clans but the membership should be limited to a few months, enough time to get to know the game and get to a new Clan. These Clans would also serve as an easy place for older Clans to loo for new recruits.

If this sounds interesting, am I sure that there are people here on the forums that would give input into the Character creation process, and the necessary posts for the Clan forums.

* This step could be left out of the process.

Very good thoughts.