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Name of topic: New event: Horde Wars
much likedStiskaMale

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
81. post - 2013.10.26. 14:29:35
well with healing is much more simple however what i only see right now is huge difference in dd-eh players specially in event such as this one. This is game mode problem in pretty much all events not only this one. players with dd can adapt in every event and eh doesnt have that privilege. even with all AA abilities developed they are getting same se as players who switch. miklos can you give me answer on this matter please?

One notice it is not that i am eh player so i am complaining to get benefit. i have 2 different chars
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popularCruel01Male

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
82. post - 2013.10.26. 17:24:11 (Reply to post #81 of Stiska.)
Event is halfway done and here are my impressions:

- Positive feedback
--> This event brings something new and exciting, which, in my opinion, makes it the best event conceptually. It creates real competition among players and this is fun. I personally enjoy and get a little anxious waiting until midnight to check the scoreboard.

- Negative feedback
--> Even though the concept is good, execution was not so great. Hordes can't compete, specially in a cross world event (I know next time worlds will have merged, but you could've done 3 separate events this time). It's impossible to coordinate and even if you try, how will you be sure you are not "helping the enemy"? I have been sending instructions to other ruby players in other worlds, but how do I know this is their main char? How can I be sure they are not using this intel against me? In summary, it's simply terrible to have all worlds competing together. On top of that, I believe the next event should be "Clan Wars", as most people would prefer not to fight their clan mates (as is happening with all major clans right now).
--> Clones are not fun. Top players simply hate to face their own top notch reflections, specially when do so much damage and even kill their pets.
--> Event is too expensive. As a matter of fact, the game has become too expensive in general. For some of us, it doesn't matter. I don't mind spending $20 per month in a game I love playing, but the problem is that some people do mind or can't afford to do so. Then they simply quit. And when they quit, others also quit because the game becomes too small. And this has been happening with Doomlord, sadly. By the way, I like the recent changes to stimulate lower level players/clans. It has the potential to bring new entrants, which is a problem for DL as well. On that, I believe you should make leveling up even harder (those 2%, 4%, etc... could be 4%, 8%, etc... to triple the XP for 1st instead of doubling).

Cruel.

P.S. Stiska, let me break it down to you, from my personal experience. Everyone should go DD until level 60. Before that. make sure to complete all 100 quests and acquire the Grey Soulstealer. At this point, you should switch to EH and get all EH AA skills. With the extra SE from soul drain and quests, you will beat all DD players.
This post was modified by Cruel01 at 2013.10.26. 17:25:46
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much likedStiskaMale

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
83. post - 2013.10.27. 15:33:06
yup cruel i know, we talked about that long time ago
its not how we organize our chars its about events. you cant create event where benefits in every event has player who is dd. with all aa abilities what eh player poses still you are gaining same se as player who switch from dd to eh and do not poses 1 of aa skills. this is only huge problem which i se in this event cause this event player who is eh suppose to have benefit from, not dd player. but it is actually again oposite.

miklos?

p.s. cruel i agree about your opinion, it stands
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much likedStiskaMale

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
84. post - 2013.10.27. 15:43:08
only one thing cruel
you cant catch up dd player cause simply they drink switching potions and have same benefits during event as you have while you dont have benefits what they have by hunting and that is double less xp. cause of this i try to make point to the admins. check out this event, langor and every other event. check out how many lvl-s eh player advance and how many dd player advance. check it out how many of players use switching potions and use benefits of eh while eh player cant use their option and then you will find out that this game is turning into 1 side game
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much likedMiklosMale
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Re: New event: Horde Wars
85. post - 2013.10.27. 22:44:20
ardent: don't worry about numbers. yes the alghorytm takes 95-99% but there are many differences between your character and your clone. For example, you get bonus attack from your clan building while your clone does not. So even if they have seemingly same or better equipment, most of the time they are much weaker than you. On purpose, in some fights, like 15% of them, you get extra hard opponents. Those are the ones which you sometimes you lose. And yes, I do not understand what is your problem, please help me to understand. You win 90% or more of your fights even in "hard mode". You would like to win 100%? Or take no damage in fights? When you fight real opponents you always win? In many games I played, the biggest challenge was always to defeat my own clone...

Stiska: I'm not sure I understand what you say. There are 3 strategies, DD with compensation, EH with extra AA abilities based on EH, and pure AH/DD which switches with potion. All 3 strategies has advantages and disadvantages. We try to balance as much as possible, but in specific situations there will be always strategies which are better than the other. If you can prove (with numbers) why one side is much better than the other, please send it to us via CS and I will see if you are right and we can always make adjustments.

Cruel: for the next event, probably we will create a separate forum for each horde. But you should know, in the original servers, players could create strategies, and the one which is following their strategy most consistently is winning. So executing a strategy is possible, just not easy and needs a lot of organizing. "Clones are not fun". This is simply a different thing people are used to. Everyone except an opponent which he can kill with one blow without taking damage. But this time, we wanted player to make a decision. Do 15 pp, and do the event easily. Or take 30 pp, and sometimes lose, and pets take heavy damage. I never really heard people complaining that Hard mode in game *** is too hard. If it is too hard, they switch to normal. Your pets taking damage, this is a good opportunity then to use the resources you have, potions, temple crystals, revive essences, or just play smart and redistribute skill points. About being "too expensive": there is nothing mandatory to buy. But we always looking for player feedback, we want to make sure players are satisfied with item prices.
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popularSbartMale

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
86. post - 2013.10.27. 23:16:31 (Reply to post #85 of Miklos.)
About fighting Clones:
I do not mind losing battles. What I do care about is how it feels to play the game, and when it does not matter how good I am (since my opponent is directly tailored to me), it does not feel good. What I mean is that there is a sense of "why did I spend all thoses resources becoming powerfull, when it does not matter?".

I understand that there is a problem in generating opponents that suits everyone, and the "Clone-approach" is one solution to it. But it does mean that those of us that are very powerful does feel cheated, since all that power we have gained is pointless. Suddenly it does not matter how much IQ you have, the only thing that matters is how many DP you have.

I do not have any solution to this problem, I just want to try to make Beholder understand why people complain.

About the cost:
The major price from the Event is th Horde throphies,* and the majority of the HT are coming from the War packs (which costs AS). So in that sense, this event is the most "expensive" event ever in the history of Doomlord.

(Quick estimation says that you can get (8*21=) 168 HT from War packs, and about (1100/20=) 55 HT from 1100 won battles (one every 20 battles?))


* At this point someone is going to say "no, it is the Medal". That is not how I see it, since the Medal is Temporary, and the prices from HT are Permanent.
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averageardentFemale

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
87. post - 2013.10.28. 10:57:40
Miklos, I have explained, very clearly, i might add, what my problem is. I even gave you an example .... I will quote what i wrote in my last post, maybe now it will become clearer:

" This event requires more resources than a premium player can normally generate. I have those resources because I payed extra for wheel of fortune, daily offer, war packs and whatever other previous offers you had. If I had lost some of those resources fighting other players, I would have had no problem with it, I wouldn't have even flinched! ... But when you force me to fight a clone that has 99% of my stats, better weapon and spell, that's like forcing me to uselessly loose with the reasoning that you find it fair! It is like I sand before my own reflection in a mirror, punch it and the only thing that gets hurt is my hand. WHERE is the satisfaction in that?"

I see Sbart outlined and explained the same idea, in a more calm manner. As he said, all those "Clone Wars" that most of the events have become, WHY should any of us want to become more powerful when, in the end we don't end up fighting each other???? We end up fighting clones of ourselves! Hardcore PvE oriented games are no fun at all, that is what you must understand! The path that you have chosen for this game will lead to its own demise, even faster than you might think ....
it figures ....
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much likedMiklosMale
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Re: New event: Horde Wars
88. post - 2013.10.28. 12:26:50
Okay, I understand now. So you would like to get some advantage for being more powerful than others.

So maybe the opponent should be not your clone, but some others. In 15 pp mode, clones of significant lower level characters, in 30 pp mode, clones of higher level characters. It needs a lot of testing, but we can do this for the next event. However, this will mean that weak characters might lose more than now. It is also possible to increase reward if you defeat a harder opponent. More SE, and maybe a few extra treasure.
About the Horde Pack, we can reduce the price a bit for the next event. Also might be a good idea to add a relic which you get for horde trophies and increases the chance for treasure. This way, number of victories will have a greater weight in amount of treasure hoarded.
About the medal, yes, its temporal, but this means only that you have to divide its value. So if +8 to all stats means 20 million SE for you, then you can say a temporal half-year effect of the same strength is only 5 million SE value for you. So if you had to do 500 battles for this, then its' like you get +10.000 SE per battle. Still a nice reward and huge boost in SE/XP.
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popularCruel01Male

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
89. post - 2013.10.28. 17:47:21 (Reply to post #88 of Miklos.)
@Miklos
This is what we have been saying all along. In my normal playing routine, I lose 1 fight in 100. So in an event, I don't want to lose 1 in 10. As for the weaker players, if they usually lose 5 in 10, why should they have the benefit of losing 1 in 10 during the event? This doesn't make any sense. The difficulty will be how to implement this, because your suggestion of simply using clones of other players will not work either, as some clones will be simply too strong to be defeated. Maybe create an average for each level in all Hungarian worlds (as Hungary has more players, it would have less distortion) and then randomly select one of these clones. For example, assuming I am level 100 and, when having 30 DPs setting, I can attack 10 levels up. You would create a lvl 101 clone, lvl 102 clone, ..., lvl 110 clone using the average stats of all players in all worlds for each level. Then I would have a 10% chance of facing any of those clones. The same logic would be valid for the 15 DPs setting. In my opinion, this solution would be very reasonable (except for the top 3-5 players, for whom you would need to think of something different).

@Stiska
When constantly switching between DD and EH, players lose some very important AA skills. I don't see a full EH player, doing several quests monthly and with high soul drain could ever be weaker than a "switcher".

Cruel.
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very popularBartessica Slam

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
90. post - 2013.10.29. 00:08:47 (Reply to post #89 of Cruel01.)
Dear friends,

sorry to say but though I consider myself as a quit well developed player; this event does give finally also a chance for weaker players... . At the end Beholder; nor the top of the food chain players , have a benefit in loosing weaker but motivated players.
Therefore I say "Finally an event where everybody can join, not only "just us" as so called "top-players" . I know, I won't make a lot of friends with this statement and I even risk to say that thinking otherwise is quit snobbish.
To make a point, I just want to tell that personally I don't care... if I want, I'm always in the top-10; and the ppl who know me in W3, I hope they confirm this as an understatement. I'm happy to see finally an event where the strongest player can loose.... for once.

Playing a game is also making fun. (Except for Beholder; for them, it's making money).

I hope I can reach some of you in getting my point.
Elvenwind (W3)
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popularSbartMale

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
91. post - 2013.10.29. 00:19:14 (Reply to post #90 of Bartessica Slam.)
I don't think any "top" players want to have all the rewards for themselves (I certainly do not). In fact, I think that in a good Event everyone have a good chance of getting the "full reward". Sadly, this Event is not one of those Events (since a large part of the available reward comes from the War pack you buy from AS).
Weirdly, The Map was such an Event. Everyone could get the Top Reward, premium and non-premium alike, high and low level alike. Other than that the Event was not that good, but that part I think Beholder got "right" (from my point of view).

Also, the complain raised here is not "I do not want to loose!", but rather "what is the point of developing your character, if it does not matter when the Events come around?". As the Event stands now it does not matter if you have 20 or 500 IQ, the chance to win a given duel is the same. Is that how the game is supposed to work?

Having a good Challenge is a good thing, but then why can we not prepare ourselfs for that challenge?
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averageGerta

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
92. post - 2013.10.29. 12:55:27
I can't attack. Why?
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popularSbartMale

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
93. post - 2013.10.29. 12:56:24 (Reply to post #92 of Gerta.)
Quote: Gerta - 2013.10.29. 12:55:27
I can't attack. Why?


Do you have Event point(s) and Duel point(s)?
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averageGerta

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
94. post - 2013.10.29. 12:56:25
Oh, I know, sorry...
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averageGerta

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
95. post - 2013.10.29. 12:57:34
I stupid, I'm resting.

thx Sbart.
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much likedIlyanna

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
96. post - 2013.11.02. 19:02:57
To me this is merely a money gouging event.
On W2 i lose more duels than I win. I don't have money to spend on this event. Only good consolation is on W2 when I get a small treasure it's usually a shard and that is the only thing that makes the game worthwhile for me there. If I play to win on that world then I stand the chance of causing my horde to lose on another world so playing cross worlds sucks. The amount of se I've spent just to win one of the final prizes on W1 - well I'm not sure I think that's worth it either as the points are only temporary. Again this event is primarily only good for higher levels-imo. The only reason I will win anything worthwhile is because I can buy a lot of healing potions on W1. On W2 and W3 I don't get a lot of se, I don't want to level up quickly and I won't spend se on potions that may or may not help me win a few temporary ability levels.
I never had the desire to play the map event, but if this event is better (which people are saying) then the map event must have been absolutely horrible.
You can count me out next time though since I'm not paying to play my words will probably fall on deaf ears.
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much likedStiskaMale

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
97. post - 2013.11.03. 15:05:01 (Reply to post #90 of Bartessica Slam.)
+ 1 elven
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popularCruel01Male

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
98. post - 2013.11.05. 15:37:51 (Reply to post #97 of Stiska.)
This is the top 10 in W2:
Most victories
Zaglaab 1470
BoxOfPandora 1416
Sbart 1381
Phaedrus 1290
Cruel01 1244
Trackur 1218
Tallia 1212
Ghost army 1061
Proleter 1038
Sacrosanct 1001

As you can see, only top 7 have more than 1,100 wins at this point (22 hours before event ends). Isn't 1,100 an excessive number then?

By the way, if the event ends in 22 hour and the scores are updated in 9 hours, what happens in-between?

Cruel.
This post was modified by Cruel01 at 2013.11.05. 16:34:01
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very popularTallia

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
99. post - 2013.11.05. 16:07:29 (Reply to post #98 of Cruel01.)
This was an issue on the hungarian forum too.
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popularCruel01Male

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Re: New event: Horde Wars
100. post - 2013.11.05. 16:43:21 (Reply to post #99 of Tallia.)
And what happened in Hungary? Did the score get updated from 00h and 14h? What about the top 10 lists?

Thanks,
Cruel.
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