Hozzászólások - Sbart

(continuation)

Idézet: Kalann - 2012.07.27. 20:03:38

I am pretty sure you mean N normal WoF rolls (and not 100 WoF rolls at level 100!). I like that list of rewards. In fact, I think I like it a bit too much, and that it might be a bit overpowered. So I will counter that suggestion with:
(N= number of test in the Epic Adventure, L=Level of player)
One major Treasure (Random 1-100):
1-50=(N*L)/500 AA pts
51-85=+1 to Con/Mag/Str/Tha (equall probability)
86-99=+1 to Atk/Def/IQ (equall probability)
100=Ultra rare treasure from WoF
and N "non-AS" rolls on the WoF

That should still generate a "good" incentive to do Epic Adventures and not be too OP.

Thoughts?

Idézet: Kalann - 2012.07.27. 20:03:38
O don´t like this. Reason is mainly that then Epic Adventures will be extremly hard for the average player, and Crystal points (a very underused resource) will be even less desierable.

Idézet: Kalann - 2012.07.27. 20:03:38
But the Epic adventures would be Very Hard at level 100 and Extremely easy at level 130, since at level 100 I can use 1 CP, but at level 130 I can use 30 (if I buy the AA ability), although the tests will be relatively the same.
I think it is easier to leave CP in the Epic Adventures and just raise the difficulty. This has the added value of making CP useful for everyone (that is doing Epic adventures).

Idézet: Kalann - 2012.07.27. 20:03:38
I have to confess that I didn´t even consider the possibility of discarding Adventures, but the above suggestion (next Adventure you find after doing 9 Adventures) solves that in a very elegant way.
I do not see the reason why you shouldn´t be able to just discard the Epic Adventure though. But when you discard it, it is gone, and you would have to do another 9 Adventures before you find a new one. This would make Epic Adventures non-mandatory (although you would loose one Adventure if you discard it).

Idézet: Kalann - 2012.07.27. 20:03:38
Probably easier to just let the Epic Adventure count as an Adventure for the "Do 15 Adventures" quest. Otherwise you would gain another free repeatable quest, and I think that would be too good.

(to be continued)

Brilliant Cruel. Exactly the reason I wanted to discuss this here (on an open forum). That would actually solve both the problem of the random adventure text and the "I will just do the easiest Adventure for my Epic one".

This could also solve the Reward size, and just let it be dependent on the number of tests in the Epic Adventure. Since the Epic Adventure is chosen at random, it will even out over time.

So in summary the "new" suggestion would then be:
Epic Adventures
Starting at player level 100 there will be Epic Adventures. After a player of level 100 has completed 9 Adventures one random adventure in his/her list will be chosen as an Epic Adventure (if the player does not have any Adventure the next Adventure found will be an Epic Adventure).
Epic Adventures will be just like normal Adventures (with the same tests), but all tests will be harder than normal (Battles against tougher opponents, Ability/Skill tests 5-10 steps harder, 20-30% Higher HP/SP/SE loss, require higher level potions), and the Reward after the Adventure will not be soul-diamonds but a Treasure Hoard. This Treasure Hoard should contain some random reward, perhaps generated from the same list as the Wheel of Fortune, and the number/value(?) of items should be determined by the number of tests in the Epic Adventure.

Does that look ok?

I see the problem Miklos.

Basically, we want Epic Adventures to be harder than normal Adventures (to allow for the better Reward), and the question really is how to implement this.

Different options:
A) After Adventure 10 there is a small number of Epic Adventure tests (3-5?) with Adventure text chosen "at random" (similar to how the text is shown when hunting, probably 3-5 different text for every type of test). Essentially these additional test are the Epic Adventure.
B) Every 10th Adventure is the Epic Adventure in itself, all the tests for that Adventure are Epic tests
C) After a player have done 10 Adventures there is a new "Epic Adventure!" showing up in the Adventure menu. This Epic Adventure always have 5 tests and is Randomly generated as in Option A.

Option B have the Advantage that it is simple, there is less writing to do. Unfortunately, Adventures can be tracked, and it is possible to know beforehand how many test (and which tests) it has.
Option A and C both require more work, but has the advantage that the Epic Adventure is more random (and more dangerous). Option C also has the advantage that Epic adventures become optional, you can choose not to do it.

I see the problem with generating text for a Random Epic Adventure. Although there are only 6 basic types of tests (Battle, Ability, Skill, Resource, Item use, and Quiz), some of these (Ability and Skill in particular) has a large amount of sub-groups and as such present a problem for writing generic quest tests. Essentially one would need text for all 27 different skill tests and all 8 different Ability tests.Battle and Quiz would be easy to write generic quest text for, and I think Resource use would be doable too. Item use could potentially be removed from the Epic Adventure.

Personally I would think that Random Epic Adventures (as in option A and C) would feel more Epic, but I see the problem with implementation.

About the addition of a Luck test to see if you find treasure, if you use the Wheel of Fortune to generate the treasure there is already a certain amount of "luck" involved.

EDIT
This is the original proposal. Please scroll down and read the rest to find the more finalized proposal.


Since there was some positive replies regarding the implementation of Epic Adventures (EpAdv) (see Suggestion box, post #582 for the initial post), I thought it would be a good idea to have some more discussion and suggestions about it (so that Miklos and Beholder get some more idea and data and can potentially implement it sooner).

Basic idea
At some point in the game Adventures get less exciting for players, so then it would be a good/interesting idea to introduce something new with Adventures: Epic Adventures. EpAdv are Adventures that rewards you with some different (better) loot, but they should only come up once in a while, and probably be a bit more difficult than a "normal" adventure.

When should the appear?
My suggestion would be for EpAdv to appear at level 100. There are two main reasons for this:
1) There are no new Relics for Soul-diamonds after level 110, so around level 100 Soul-diamonds starts to loose their luster
2) There is nothing else special happening at level 100, and it is level 100 after all

The alternative would be to have an AA ability that would turn EpAdv "on". Such an AA ability should probably have a level requirement of 100, but personally I do not think such an ability would be necessary.

Frequency
The basis for EpAdv are the special Dimension gate battles you get after level 80; Every 10 DG battles you fight a special monster and have the chance of getting a special Focus crystal (for Rings/Necklaces). You get enough Dimension gate battle to have one such DG battle every 2nd day (after Dimension gate level 12).
Some quick calculations says that a player get 3.3-7.2 Adventures/day (the large span is caused by differences in #actions/day and the fact that a player can have between 5-8% chance of getting an Adventure due to a Relic and AA ability). To me this suggest that EpAdv should show up every 10th Adventure, comparable to the DG battles.

Difficulty
Since we are talking about an Epic Adventure, it should be a bit more difficult than a normal Adventure, don't you think? I see a few different ways to do this, but I think the following would be a good way:
The Adventure (that you choose as normal in the Adventure menu) starts as normal. After you have done all the tests as defined by the Adventure, you gain an additional 3-5 Epic Adventure tests. These test would be a) randomly chosen from normal kind of Adventure tests, and b) tougher than the normal Adventure tests. Tougher here means that Skill test would be 5-10 levels higher, Fights would be against the kind of opponents you get every 10 DG battles, and HP/SP/SE loss would be 25% higher (I think it would be a good idea to remove the Healing/Mana potion from these EpAdv tests).

Reward
The reward from the EpAdv would be a Treasure Hoard (TH). The size of the TH should be dependent on the number of Adventure tests taken since the end of the last EpAdv (including those from the current EpAdv). Items in the TH could be basically anything, but why not use the random item generator in the Wheel of Fortune? I would suggest that the game saves up you TH points (one per Adventure test for your 10 Adventures) and then simply roll on the Wheel of Fortune once per 12 TH points you have accumulated, with every 10th roll being a "AS re-roll", and all the other roll being "normal" rolls. Any leftover TH points would be saved for next EpAdv.
This would give on average 4-5 items from the Wheel every EpAdv (potentially less since most rolls would be of the "none-Green-Blue" variety, and only every second EpAdv would you get a "green-blue-Red"-roll).

So, those are some of my thoughts on Epic Adventures and how I would like to have them in this game. There is lots of space for tweaking numbers (how often should we have Epic Adventures? How much loot? How difficult should they be?) and other details (some other kind of loot? Perhaps minor AH relics (as mentioned by Cruel01)?).

Comments and suggestions more than welcome!

@Gladoom
This is the suggestion box, may be better to post about problems in either Bugs or Complains. Even better might be to send an email to bug@beholder.net

About reducing the time between Temples of Doom
I would agree that it would be nice, and the only way to really implement it would be by making it an AA ability so people could choose how "fast" temples they would want. But I do not think this will be the case, because as Kalann says, the time between Temples is a balancing factor. Faster Temples would be a very, very powerful thing, and I do not think Beholder want to open that can of worms.

Not directly. The red (Ultra-rare) can only come up when you re-spin the wheel. So you can get a Blue (rare) and get a Luck coupon, and the re-spin the wheel and get a Red.

Current information in the game say no, you can get a Platinum if you have a Gold and would get another Gold. Nothing about Mythril.

And I have a vague memory of Mikos saying something about Mythril only being available for Relic coupons (at least for now).
Found it:
Idézet: Miklos - 2012.06.11. 11:34:40

Thanks Miklos, looks like it is working fine now.

The "Pet fight while healing" effect from the level 120 boots "boots of Moon" does not work (i.e. pets that are healing does not fight with you if this is the only "pet fight while healing" item you have on you).

Weird, I am getting the same bug.

When initiating a huckster duel, instead of displaying the battle I get to a page saying "There is no such battle!", although the battle is listed in "Previous battles".

EDIT
And now it is back to normal (right after posting the above).
Weird

EDIT2
And now the problem is back. The battles are listed in Previous battles, but when trying to get the details I only get the "There is no such battle!" message.

Idézet: dodo888 - 2012.07.20. 07:39:46
Only wins against other players count for the Team competition. All your wins (against players and Crystal clan) counts for your personal wins (which decides what price you get).

At what temperature is the triple point of water (Water can exist as a solid, liquid or gas)?
0.1 DegC
0.11 DegC
1 DegC
0.01 DegC <- Marked as correct

the problem with this question is twofold:
1) At the triple point solid, liquid, and gas coexists in thermal equilibrium (not or)
2) Water is some complex s**t, and actually has several triple points, partly due to the different types of ice that exists.

I would suggest chaining the to:
At what temperature is the most wellknown triple point of water (Water can exist as a solid, liquid and gas)?
0.1 DegC
0.11 DegC
1 DegC
0.01 DegC (<- Marked as correct)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_point
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_%28molecule%29#Triple_point

Making Adventures exciting (again)

WARNING - Wall of text incoming

The Problem:
When a Player gain access to Adventures in the game (at level 40) they are a nice and exciting addition to the game. They are a nice thing to do, and they reward a player with Soul-diamonds (SD), a new Resource. These SD can then be used to buy a number of new and shiny items; Boots, Relics, special armor and shields, special pet equipment, and (eventually) Helmets. This is good.
But then, as time goes on, as a player buys more and more things this shiny new Resource loose some of it's glamor. After level 110 there are no more Relics you can buy for SD. With the addition of the Adventure Orb, AA abilities, and the fact that the Wheel of Fortune can give you SD, players easily end up in a situation where they have more SD than needed, and suddenly Adventures are not that exiting any more.
And I for one feel that it is a bit sad that Adventures become obsolete like that.

Proposed solution:
As outlined above, the problem with Adventures is not really the mechanic behind the Adventures, but rather the Reward. I would suggest to introduce Epic Adventures, in a similar manner to the special Dimension gate battles. So every 3 (or 5 or 10) Adventures would be an Epic Adventure. As such the Reward for the Adventure would not be a bundle of SD, but rather a Treasure Hoard, and this Treasure Hoard would contain Green (common) and Blue (Rare) Wheel of Fortune prices. Now, there would be a number of different ways to determine exactly how often one would have an Epic Adventure, and exactly how big the Treasure Hoard should be. I would say that the following would be important to take into consideration:
a) Epic Adventures should not be in from level 40, but rather from level 100. Below level 100 there are plenty of Relics to buy from SD (and it would be nice to have something special for level 100)
b) The inclusion of Treasure hoards could be introduced through an AA ability. This would have the advantage that the player could decide if they wanted to have Epic adventures or not
c) The size of the Treasure Hoard should probably be dependent on the total number of Adventure Tests since the last Epic Adventure so that one does not simply do the short Adventures and then just save the big adventures for the Epic ones

I have probably forgotten a lot of stuff, but please comment and make more suggestions.

tl;dr
Soul-diamonds as reward from Adventures is not enough at high levels, I suggest introducing Epic Adventures that gives Wheel of Fortune prices above player level 100.

As long as the Scarab works as intended (i.e. you loose SE but drag him into the TC) there is another way around it. If you attack with 0 SE on you you will not loose any SE (although you will not gain any). After this the player with the Scarab is already in your TC, so you should be able to attack again, without the Scarab triggering (since he is already in your TC you cannot drag him into your TC).

But that is only if the Scarab works as it should.

Drain soul - You drain in ratio of the melee damage you deal (But no more in total than 1/5 of the SE you have at the start of the combat)

That is the description of Soul-drain that you get if you hover over the little ? in the "Bonuses" section of your character sheet. Emphasis on the part in parenthesis! If you have high Soul-drain and deal a lot of damage, it is very possible to quickly exceed this amount unless you made sure that you had enough SE when you started the battle.

Does that help?

Idézet: Miklos - 2012.06.10. 06:53:19

According to the quote above, it would be implemented for the Clan quests also.

My clan just started the "Advance x levels" clan quest, and it still states that we need to advance x levels, where x is the number of active players. Wasn't there supposed to be a change to this so that the extra xp needed for the top 50 would not affect this? Or have I missed something?

How would you make the Torture chamber (TC) optional?
If you just introduce an option "Want to be able to use and can be put in the TC" then everyone who think they will benefit will say "Yes" and everyone else will say "No", and in one magical stroke the building has been made pointless, since the ones who said yes will suddenly have no targets to put in there.

Now I do somewhat agree that the TC is somewhat frustrating. Stronger players just gain some "extra" SE, while not so strong players basically cannot get out. But what to do about it? As it stands right now the TC is a kind of "pvp insurance", i.e. if I attack you and you do not have any SE on you right now I will anyhow get some SE from you later*. Not much, but at least some.
The only way for your opponent to stop this is to either have the Scarab of Doom (from the Auction house) or to defeat you in a duel and get out of the TC (I will just eave the Scarab out of the discussion for now). But as said before, the probability that you will be able to defeat the player who put you into the TC is small. So what could be done?

Option A: Just leave everything as it is
Easiest option, since there is no changes needed. But it does not address any problems with the TC.

Option B: Introduce alternative ways of getting out of the TC
At a first glance this might look like a good idea, but is it? If there would be an "Escape TC" skill, or you could automatically get out with the payment of either SE, AP, or DP it would only be a loss of SE for the player put in the TC!
And if the alternative way of getting out does not cost anything, then the TC is pointless (everyone receives a "Get out of jail for free" card)

Option C: Remove the TC from the game
This is a messy option, because how are you going to refund all those Clans that have already build the TC? Removing things from a game like this is always messy.

All in all the Torture chamber might be a bit frustrating (for player who are not strong in pvp), but personally I do not see any good way of doing anything with it that would change anything in a good way.

* And do note that you do not loose any SE from being in the TC.

Wish i could give you a good answer, but as far as I know there isn´t any.

Purely anecdotal I can say that it "feels" like DG 50 give me more SE than DG 25 did, but I have no hard data to back that up.

Quickly checking I can see that I got about 5200* SE/DG battle at level 110 with a level 50 DG, but I don´t have anything to compare to.


* That is from winning the battle, Drain not included.