Hozzászólások - Viridel

Idézet: Cruel01 - 2011.01.17. 21:32:06
Exactly - it's absolutely fair. Players who have invested in the skill will reap the rewards. Thank you for supporting my point.


So attackers that do nothing different than they would normally do - attack. But you want builders to do something that they wouldn't usually do - sacrifice the clan for their personal benefit...

Sorry, I'm not seeing where your logic is coming from.

Also, there will be a cost. You actually think that the Top10 is going to be won by ManaCon alone? It's SE that is going to win that battle. So the Building event still costs SE... What REALLY does the Attacking event COST? Nothing, or close to it.


The point is that you're making s#it up to support a point that you could be 100% wrong on. Where is your proof that your SE revenue will go down and/or your XP cost will go up???

Idézet: petel87 - 2011.01.17. 21:14:16

Ummm, APs aren't used in wars - and your example is beyond ludicrous anyway.

Idézet: Cruel01 - 2011.01.17. 20:49:51
How about every other player with ManaCon L50, and lots of spell points? That's like saying someone will win the Attacking event because they have Attack of 100, and nobody else does. Except that probably 90% of the players over L30 have 100+, and even if they don't, they can still develop the attribute.


Again - That's not a COST to the player!!! It's a COST to the Clan!!! Again:
"There is no Clan penalty of players want to participate in the Attacking side - so why penalize a Clan on the Building side?"

If you can't answer that, you have no argument on this part of the discussion.



And these numbers come from.......... Where exactly? Personally, I think the numbers are 2000 SE/10 XP. Can you prove me any more or less correct than your numbers? Unless you can, your argument once more, holds absolutely no weight.

Change Dominican Republic to Dominica, and the question will be right (not my question, just an easy fix without having to kill it):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Dominica

Idézet: dark22 - 2011.01.17. 04:50:53
Win


Epic Win

Idézet: Cruel01 - 2011.01.17. 15:30:46

You're missing the point - if players are ManaCon L50, they have earned that right to be on the top list by spending to achieve that skill maximum. It's not difficult to get to. Saying that they should be restricted in any way is like saying that every duel based character should be capped at 200 Attribute points.

Beyond that, it's completely illogical to make the Clan suffer because the players want to participate in the event. There is no Clan penalty of players want to participate in the Attacking side - so why penalize a Clan on the Building side? There is NO good reasoning behind that!



How exactly are the attacking-based players making a sacrifice? They will be collecting SE for wins and collecting potions after 12 wins.

What it comes down to is that the Attacking-Based players should NOT have anything close to an equal opportunity to compete on the Building side, in the same way as a Clan-Based player will not have anything close to an equal opportunity on the Attacking side. Fair is fair - too many events are geared exclusively towards Attackers - Builders are FINALLY getting their chance to participate to their full potential (in theory) - and that wants to be stripped away too.



And you know this, how exactly? In the Zankwad event, the Goblin battles were more profitable on average than standard duels - by a fair amount.



That is incorrect. There is no "cost" to the player. The cost is to the Clan. So I repeat my point above:
"There is no Clan penalty of players want to participate in the Attacking side - so why penalize a Clan on the Building side?"

Idézet: Sbart - 2011.01.17. 18:19:00

In other words - players that have invested in Magic and ManCon get NO benefit in the event (over someone with ManaCon L1), while players that have invested in EleFus / SpecMan / ExHunt skills will get more APs, and make more off each one - meaning they have more SE to contribute... And this makes sense in the BUILDING half, how exactly?

*** Removed to do a consolidated post below ***

Idézet: petel87 - 2011.01.15. 08:46:35

I would like to formally call for Petel's "temporary" ban... Or at least a permanent ban from the Forum. There IS a line that has been more than sufficiently crossed. His posts are not respected, or wanted - as clearly evidenced by the scoring on the most recent posts, and profile status of "Hated". Hell, even my score is only "average", and I stir more s#it than anyone!

Idézet: Kethios - 2011.01.14. 10:33:52

It's an interesting concept, but I see three "failings":
1) There will likely be far more attackers than builders, and with the pass/fail approach, that means a lot of players may get absolutely nothing.
2) It doesn't address the loss of ManaCon to the Clan / how ManaCon will be utilized in value.
3) It punishes players who have built characters legitimately useful in both categories.
4) It reduces the potential winners of each Top10 list to those who pick that half of the event to start in.

Solutions:
a) When a Xeno is defeated at that level, Building opens up for ALL players at that level range (or vice versa, as the case may be). The Xeno must be defeated in both Attack AND Build before the players can move up/down to the next level
b) When ManaCon is L30, it can be used twice per day (but only once for the Clan) - simplest & best solution / Value, as said previously, Level*500 = 1 Build point.
c) With the "other half opening up" as per solution A, this somewhat remedies itself, but you could easily be in a situation where the "first half" of the creature takes so long to kill, there is no time to earn the 2nd half reward (or it is prohibitively expensive using SE only).
d) This may not necessarily be all-bad. However, a great blended character where the player is really dedicated to the event, still can't feasibly get on both lists, which is a little unfair to take away even the possibility.
It's an interesting idea, and one I would support, provided a viable opportunity exists for both halves, and the Clans don't get screwed.




Not sure what you're saying, as you mention both ManaCon and SE in the same sentence as "second ManaCon". To simplify it, once you use it for the Clan, "Build with Spell Points" disappears from the Clan Building options (same as it currently does), however the option still exists in the Event panel - also once per day, of course. Unless you're suggesting that if you use ManaCon, you canNOT build with SE as well... Which would be a bad idea, since the Top10 Lists would basically be invalidated since you're limiting possible contributions.

what creature on Earth has the biggest eye?
whale
octopus
horse
cow


And somehow the answer is "Octopus". A creature with some species as small as my hand. A question that does not include Giant Squid in the answers...

BAD Evaluator!

Idézet: Bash Chelik - 2011.01.13. 23:14:06

This could be neat... Let's say you first get the choice of a +1/+2/+3 Medal where the skills go over max (like a Relic), or a +3/+4/+5 medal where values are capped to the Skill Max (like standard equipment). So if someone wanted to boost uncapped skills (like Execution / Critical Hit / Critical Spell), they could select the +3/+4/+5 Medal of ____ Boost. If they wanted to exceed the Cap (Transplant / UltraSpec / SpecMan / Squeeze /etc), then they would take the +1/+2/+3 Medal of ____ Excellence. Lower participation levels would result in a +1/+2 medal of _ excellence or +1/+2/+4 modal of _ boost, and for basic participation, a +1 medal of _ excellence or a +1/+3 medal of _ boost.

Obviously you would be able to select which skills are on your Medal, and you can name it. I love this idea - in fact, a case could be made that this would be the only reward needed in this event (rather than the choice between the other several things).

Idézet: Cruel01 - 2011.01.13. 23:15:24

Actually "simple multiplication" will work well in this case, given that the building isn't necessarily a competition - a player will invest as much as they are willing or able to. You can't "lose a build duel". In fact, I would suggest a player in the 40-45 range is likely to have the best chance of winning overall, as their ManaCon is likely to be max'd out at that point, and Magic upgrades are very cost effective. Since a L60 would have to have 9000 SP to break even with a L40 with 6000 using a Level*factor system, it would require additional investment by the L60 player just to keep pace... Which is certainly not a bad thing.

Idézet: Cruel01 - 2011.01.13. 17:16:56

And a L60 would need 180,000 and a 70 would need 245,000... Meaning that the L70 has 3x the requirement over a L41. Remembering that ManaBuild is only based on ManaCon and SP - a L41 can have ManaCon50 easily enough, which would equal the best a L70 can get, and both can only use it once a day - but would a L70 be likely to have 3x as many SP as a L41? I love using exponentials in calculations, but the numbers can get absurdly astronomical in a hurry if you're not really careful. It's a good idea, it just can't be a ^2 exponent... Perhaps a ^1.25 with a higher required multiplier - if an exponent is actually needed at all in this case, since the skill itself has a Cap and usage limit.

Idézet: Kethios - 2011.01.13. 08:35:31

The issue is that ManaConstruction counts the same whether the player has 10,000 SP and ManaCon level 50 - or 3000 SP and ManaCon level 1. The player with the higher totals has obviously invested far more to get the attribute & skill that high. Meanwhile a player who has invested in attacking attributes instead will be more successful on the attacking side, and in spite of a marginal (one skill level) investment in ManaCon, stands to receive the EXACT same benefit as someone who has invested FAR more on the Building side.

*** Post modified to remove the issue with the potions, as Miklos has clarified how they work ***

The concept behind the dual-concept (attack & build) event was to give non-attacking-oriented players an opportunity to participate to their full potential. Counting ManaCon equal - regardless of actual value - and the free beneficial potions put the advantage clearly in favour of the attacking-oriented player - for BOTH halves of the event. In addition, the Clan suffers of the Clan-oriented player participates, since the L50 ManaCon will be wasted on a (single) Build point instead of Clan buildings. A Clan will not care if a L1 ManaCon player doesn't build into the Clan, as that value is negligible.


Corrections that need to be made:
ManaCon has a point-to-point value based on the actual Build it provides - something to the effect of Player Level *500 = 1 Build Point
SE Building needs to have a precise calculation - something to the effect of Player Level *200 = 1 Build Point
Point fractions are allowed in the running total (like 30.55 Build Points)
Every Player Level *2500 of total building, the player gets the same potion as in the Attacking portion of the event
At ManaCon L30 - ManaConstruction can be used twice per day, once into the Clan, once into an event*
*this allows a Clan-oriented player to participate in the event, but not hurt the Clan by doing so - after all, the Clan does not suffer if a attacking-oriented player participates in the Attacking portion of the event, so why should it suffer if a player participates in the Build portion?


This will give every player - regardless of how they are designed - a viable opportunity to participate to their full potential.

Idézet: Cruel01 - 2011.01.11. 18:04:06

Logically, maybe. Practically, not a chance. ManaCon is typically used before the player logs off the the night (or before work, whatever). Why would a Dueler use all his SP? Because they won't be online for several hours, and it will all regenerate by then.



Your view is wrong, since ManaCon is a once-a-day skill, and SP regenerates or can be potioned up. This isn't a flame, or a slander - you are simply wrong.



Duelers have to compromise by getting a lot of XP? Are these Duelers not attacking in the regular course of their daily activity? If you get ##XP by attacking Doomlords and ##XP by attacking Xenos, I'm assuming that Energy Harness and Creative Affinity will still be in play, therefore you gain ##XP to gain $$SE for attacking a Doomer - or ##XP to gain $$SE for attacking a Xeno. Those numbers appear to be balanced. Beyond that, after 12 wins, the Dueler gets the +3AP/+3DP potion - meaning they get an extra 6 actions after 12 wins... For a quality Dueler (12 wins out of 12 battles) - that's a 50% reduction on the cost of participation!

After 24 Wins, a Dueler will have +12 actions PLUS the EH & CA $SE bonuses over a non-dueling character. With those +12 actions, in effect, a player gets 36 SE generating opportunities, while a non-dueler would only have 24. So if the Dueler takes just those extra 12 actions and puts them into building - they are no further behind - but a Builder will have to invest 12 Hunts just to balance. This event is designed to exclude non-duelers, and double-reward high offense players.

Simply put, the balance in this event is absolute shit. It may not be obvious to you all now - but you'll see at the end.

Idézet: Phalanxii - 2011.01.10. 23:50:35

You assume that the eventual goal of every builder is to be a Dueler... I doubt this is true at all. Personally, I've never been a fan of PvP - I don't find it particularly enjoyable to beat up others... That's why I liked the Crystal Clan so much. And beyond that, there are MANY people - myself included - who find the Clan aspect by far the most rewarding part of the game.

So we have all these events that are attack, attack, attack... And even this current farce - my math in the Xeno thread clearly proves that the "Building" portion of the event is clearly to the advantage of attackers too... Meaning they get TWO rewards for participating.



Well, if they are just going to bastardize our ideas (and remember, this Xeno event was supposed to be BY the players), then what's the point? Admin is just going to do whatever they want anyways.

I am really disillusioned with this game. The communication with Admins in this game are the worst of any game I've tried. And it's not a language thing - Miklos is quite capable in English - they just don't listen or communicate.

Idézet: Miklos - 2011.01.10. 20:16:05

In other words - you are TELLING players HOW to develop their characters....

From YOUR OWN POST on the Forum (Doomlord forum -> Doomlord Game Forums -> Veteran forum -> Strategies, Post #1 Miklos):
Strategies
1. post - 2009.07.16. 00:21:36
Some words about strategies, based on testing information. Spoiler alert! If you like experimenting stop reading now.

The ability focuser: The essence of this strategy is not to buy any items initially but to spend all the SE on increasing skills, as all items need to be replaced sooner or later. They only buy items if it means a huge advancement.
Disadvantage: you will actually save some SE but will lose more battles, since by buying items you can get higher ability scores using the same amount of SE and if you lose battles you will not get as many experience points.

The aggressive dueller (a.k.a. "spider"): Be as powerful compared to your level as possible. Less hunt, more duels: get as much SE from duels as possible via the skills creative affinity and execution. Increase abilities and pet level a lot before starting to level.
Disadvantage: the spider is usually out of the real competition, because falls back in level advancement, but at least will be able to beat the lower level players easily.

The builder: Joins a clan immediately and spends all SE on building so no one will be able to steal from him and he will also almost always lose. Of course this strategy also has its tricks. Building increases luck, which gives you more SE when hunting, because you will have a better chance of attacking a bigger monster. Additionally, he will have more treasure points in epic battles. Also he will not be attacked as often and will get a lot of benefits from buildings.
Disadvantage: Don’t forget that the clan gives only indirect support for your character and the strength of your clan relies on how much others invest in it. You can build as much as you want if the others don’t care about the clan.

The optimizer: they play in a most bizarre way, not like a real Doomlord would... Their only purpose is to maximise the use of SE and everything else is secondary. They deliberately get beaten, down to 1 HP, so that they can gather SE, increase their abilities so they will always have little SE and when hitting level 4, immediately focus on skills that increase the flow of soul energy, ignoring other skills abilities and equipment.
Disadvantage: The optimizer will bit the dust quite a lot initially and won’t be in the top ten for a while, but if he is capable, will dominate others eventually.

Of course most players use a mix of these strategies, but it is worth building up, defining and following a clear strategy.

Idézet: Phalanxii - 2011.01.10. 19:38:49

That was one of my suggestions - if you are ManaCon L30+, you can build once into the Clan, and once into an event.

But that still doesn't compensate for the disparity in actual building quantities, since 7500 points of L50 ManaCon builds about 60,000 - and 4000 points of L1 ManaCon builds about 1000 (going by memory) - treating these two as "equal" is just a joke.

Idézet: Phalanxii - 2011.01.10. 18:49:17

YEA! Another offensive event! Screw the Builders!

Ok, to add a little more - there is already a contest for pure attackers, the Championship. This new Xeno-Battle is going down a really bad path (another screw the Builders), Avriel is also heavily based on attacking, and the Zankwad event was a complete farce for non-attacking players... Do we really need yet another offensive event?