Resources should be invested in each event. In the construction section, two types of resources can be invested (which would adversely affect the clans)

1. Manacon up once a day (this can only be used once a day) Disadvantages: does not build the buildings of the clan.
2. Construction of a fixed amount of SE, this levels for level. Down several times a day may be out to build. Disadvantages: does not build the buildings of the clan. But increases the luck. (So do not waste of SE the character, but it's a disatvanges the clan.

So everyone can decide what it wants to build: from Manacon or SE or both.

The manacon do not want to duplicate, because it is a fixed resource in the game.

We welcome suggestions. The proposal does not mean to tell me that we do not like it, but what is proposed instead. The many valuable suggestions into the game.

I agree that an event like this, with rewards, should mean an investment from the player. The issue at hand with the event as proposed is that there are two categories:
1. Fights (for AP and DP)
and
2. Building (for SE and Mana-construction)

The investment (or loss) in Category 1 (Fights) looks to be small; Fights for AP gives SE and XP as for a normal Hunt (minus the possibility to Trap a pet?) and Fights for DP gives nothing unless you have Energy Harness (correct me if this is wrong).
The investment (or loss) in Category 2 (Building) looks much bigger than in 1. Building for SE builds your Luck, and from the preview of the event the investment is not that big (about 3 hunts worth of SE). The Mana-construction (MC) one is a lot worse though. A character with Magic 50 and Mana-construction 5 gets one Build point for building with all his SP, a character of the same level with 100 Magic and Mana-construction 50 also gets 1 Build-point for doing the same, even though the second character lost a lot more building potential for his clan.

Suggestions:
1. Remove Mana-construction from the event. This is the simple solution.
or
2a. Put in a level based level of how much you should build for with Mana-construction to get 1 Build point.
2b. As in 2a, and let any SP left after building the minimum in the event be used for building in a clan building (via a drop down menu for example)
or
3. As 2a, but let people use Mana-construction twice a day during the event, once for the event and once in the clan buildings.

Proposal for a couple of hungarian servers in the event:

Reward: not only reduce the infection, but also to increase.

Debate is going to be returnable fokuscrystal a half years, or are not returnable but do not lose a half years later.

Develop a construction of luck, and so interact with the luck objects that increase.

The increase in total building construction

Medal to be something for everyone, which involves everyone who participated actively in.

Be able to "lose" the event, and then would receive a smaller reward.

Under the event you can complete your missions, find adventure from PP and AP

Instead of the +10 execution: +5 hard skin, +5 absorption, +5 regeneration, +2 to the current horde making


These are only suggestions, we also welcome specific proposals from you.

It's really nice to see the comments from the Hungarian servers, and I have to agree with many of them.

About the Focus crystal: A reusable focus crystal that gets deleted after 6 months must be more valuable than one that is permanent, but not reusable, since you would presumably change your weapon at least once in those 6 months. Or?

It's a really good proposal that the Building for SE in the event should count for increasing Luck and your Total building. I suppose the Mana-construction (however it is implemented) would also count for Total building. Also to be able to find adventures when battling the Xenos Mother queens is a good idea.

I like the fact that the Event is not a guaranteed win, but maybe a small reward (Medal of Doom?) would be nice if we loose.

A Medal for just participating.
I don't really like this one though, it's a bit like getting a price for just competing. But maybe a small price when the Xenos mother-queen that you are currently fighting goes down? The price should be small (maybe -1 sec to hunts or +1 to a skill), but if you are efficient and get other people to do more, you could potentially get more than one.

About the rewards:
Increase or Decrease of the infection is a brilliant idea, I thought the people who wanted 100% infection got the shaft with the Zarknod event.
About the Xenos combat medallion: Maybe a choice of the listen bonuses (+5 hard skin, +5 absorption, +5 regeneration) or some other choices thrown in there: +Critical Damage, +Critical spell damage, Prevent paralysation, Drain soul protection, extra mana-regen (1%?).

Idézet: Sbart - 2011.01.13. 13:15:06
But these focus crystals can only be placed in rings or necklaces. I'm stuck with the same necklace since a long time on W2. And I can't expect a new one soon. So at least in my case, a permanent focus crystal would be more valuable than a reusable one which expires after 6 months.

Idézet: quint - 2011.01.13. 15:05:15

My bad. If the FC are for rings/necklaces I suppose that permanent ones would be better than reusable (but time limitied) ones.

The crystal must be reusable and expire. The idea of having it expiring right after the next event is excellent because whoever wants to keep them will haver to "defend his title".
In the original list of prizes, there was nothing about the infection but if any prizes are going to include that, we should definitely have the option to increase or decrease it. I still have my "reward" from Zarknod to reduce the infection which I will never use.
The focus crystals should give +%SE instead of +3/5/7/10. And it should be like CA, without affecting the opponent. +10 SE for a dueler is REALLY useless!
Regarding the medal, why not just define the + amount and let the player choose which skill he wants to increase. If it is +10, the player will opt +10 of whatever skill he wants. This would be a one-time choice though. No regret option.
The idea of giving prizes to losers is dumb in my view. A loser, as the name indicates, is a person who lost. This person can't win something for losing, otherwise, it wouldn't be a loss.

Regarding the manacon argument, I am a duler but I agree that high manacon players shoud have an advantage in the building competition. BUT ONLY USE IT ONCE A DAY. The compromise is required!

@Sbart
Please refer to my previous post to understand that the loss for duelers exists is not small.

Cruel.

Idézet: Cruel01 - 2011.01.13. 15:21:00

It is %, Miklos omitted it but we are supposed to assume it's there.

And I agree, giving a reward for people getting their pets beaten unconscious is not a good idea. Especially such a powerful reward.

Sorry guys Im on holidays and have a very limited access to internet, thats why I asked Kethios and Random to answer your questions meanwhile. But let me try to clear up the most basic questions:

Stekkos: You say the event shouldnt give SE for the attacks, but the reward should be so good so it worth it. We tried this, in the first, original round of the Zarknod event on the HUN servers. But investing hundeds of APs in the event means losing millions of SE. We could not create such a powerful reward which would worth it. Thats why we try to give back most of the investment and give a reward in addition. You still lose HP, you have to heal yourself, and you can do the attacks when your HP is high enough, so people can steal the SE you get from the attacks. So I agree with the concept you suggested, and that was my plan also, but players had different needs and thats the most important what players want.

About the manaconstruction issue: manaconstructions effect increases exponentially as you level up and your magic increases. We cant set a number here, like 1000 manaconstruction equals 1 build, because whatever number we would set, would be either too easy for high level chars, or too difficult to low level ones. I do agree that manaconstruction is a very valuable resource for the advancement of your clan. Thats why we want to put players at a choice here: be a team player, and use manacon for the clan, and do the building from your own SE - or be selfish, and use the free manacon for your own good during the event. If you think that manacon is too valuable to waste for the event - simply do the building from SE. It will not be a waste, it will improve your luck as building for your clan would. We could make things more complicated, saying the efficiency of building depends on your building skill, but in fact, those who are in a clan has maxed their building out anyway, building character or not, so we wanted to keep things as simple as possible.
I do agree that those that only build and do not attack will be at a disadvantage compared to those who both attack and build. But even if you are not a "dueler" you have the equipment and stats to defeat epics, entities, dimension door creatures and as such, will have no problem beating the xeno queens.


There is a misunderstanding, you get a potion after every 12 wins, but there are 5 different potions. So you get this bonus for 60 wins, not for 12. So thats an effective 10% bonus only (if you won all 60 attacks).

What if we do Level ^2 * 50 equals 1build point?
This means a lvl 41 player would need 84,000 manacon for every point and a lvl 50 would need 125,000.
This would give an advantage to strong builders and still keep lower level players in the dispute.

P.S. I am not a builder so I don't know if the figures I am presenting make sense. If not, the formula can be changed a little. If ^2 is too little, we can change to ^3, etc... The important thing is that lvl 21, 31, 41, etc... cannot have a disadvantage when comparing to 30, 40, 50, etc...

Cruel.

Idézet: Miklos - 2011.01.13. 16:58:10


Hmm, I actually like that dilemma/moral choice.

Sort of a good/evil decision.



However, the event/"competition" needs some balance in order to level the playing field between pure builders/duelers and all-rounders. Perhaps prior to the start of the event, players will be able to choose their "class" and different formulas are applied. As it stands, the result has already been pre-determined.

Idézet: Kethios - 2011.01.13. 08:35:31

The issue is that ManaConstruction counts the same whether the player has 10,000 SP and ManaCon level 50 - or 3000 SP and ManaCon level 1. The player with the higher totals has obviously invested far more to get the attribute & skill that high. Meanwhile a player who has invested in attacking attributes instead will be more successful on the attacking side, and in spite of a marginal (one skill level) investment in ManaCon, stands to receive the EXACT same benefit as someone who has invested FAR more on the Building side.

*** Post modified to remove the issue with the potions, as Miklos has clarified how they work ***

The concept behind the dual-concept (attack & build) event was to give non-attacking-oriented players an opportunity to participate to their full potential. Counting ManaCon equal - regardless of actual value - and the free beneficial potions put the advantage clearly in favour of the attacking-oriented player - for BOTH halves of the event. In addition, the Clan suffers of the Clan-oriented player participates, since the L50 ManaCon will be wasted on a (single) Build point instead of Clan buildings. A Clan will not care if a L1 ManaCon player doesn't build into the Clan, as that value is negligible.


Corrections that need to be made:
ManaCon has a point-to-point value based on the actual Build it provides - something to the effect of Player Level *500 = 1 Build Point
SE Building needs to have a precise calculation - something to the effect of Player Level *200 = 1 Build Point
Point fractions are allowed in the running total (like 30.55 Build Points)
Every Player Level *2500 of total building, the player gets the same potion as in the Attacking portion of the event
At ManaCon L30 - ManaConstruction can be used twice per day, once into the Clan, once into an event*
*this allows a Clan-oriented player to participate in the event, but not hurt the Clan by doing so - after all, the Clan does not suffer if a attacking-oriented player participates in the Attacking portion of the event, so why should it suffer if a player participates in the Build portion?


This will give every player - regardless of how they are designed - a viable opportunity to participate to their full potential.

Idézet: Cruel01 - 2011.01.13. 17:16:56

And a L60 would need 180,000 and a 70 would need 245,000... Meaning that the L70 has 3x the requirement over a L41. Remembering that ManaBuild is only based on ManaCon and SP - a L41 can have ManaCon50 easily enough, which would equal the best a L70 can get, and both can only use it once a day - but would a L70 be likely to have 3x as many SP as a L41? I love using exponentials in calculations, but the numbers can get absurdly astronomical in a hurry if you're not really careful. It's a good idea, it just can't be a ^2 exponent... Perhaps a ^1.25 with a higher required multiplier - if an exponent is actually needed at all in this case, since the skill itself has a Cap and usage limit.

about those medals, how about this
each medal have a certain number of points
and with those points player can choose what ability-skill he/she want to boost
this way everyone gets what they want and if you put an option where players can
name those items all who earn them will have unique trinkets

@Viridel
As I said, the expoent could be a little over/underestimated.
What matters here is that a lvl 41 has to have the same chance as a lvl 50 (or lvl 70). Simple multiplication won't do the trick.

Cruel.

Idézet: Cruel01 - 2011.01.13. 23:15:24

Actually "simple multiplication" will work well in this case, given that the building isn't necessarily a competition - a player will invest as much as they are willing or able to. You can't "lose a build duel". In fact, I would suggest a player in the 40-45 range is likely to have the best chance of winning overall, as their ManaCon is likely to be max'd out at that point, and Magic upgrades are very cost effective. Since a L60 would have to have 9000 SP to break even with a L40 with 6000 using a Level*factor system, it would require additional investment by the L60 player just to keep pace... Which is certainly not a bad thing.

Idézet: Bash Chelik - 2011.01.13. 23:14:06

This could be neat... Let's say you first get the choice of a +1/+2/+3 Medal where the skills go over max (like a Relic), or a +3/+4/+5 medal where values are capped to the Skill Max (like standard equipment). So if someone wanted to boost uncapped skills (like Execution / Critical Hit / Critical Spell), they could select the +3/+4/+5 Medal of ____ Boost. If they wanted to exceed the Cap (Transplant / UltraSpec / SpecMan / Squeeze /etc), then they would take the +1/+2/+3 Medal of ____ Excellence. Lower participation levels would result in a +1/+2 medal of _ excellence or +1/+2/+4 modal of _ boost, and for basic participation, a +1 medal of _ excellence or a +1/+3 medal of _ boost.

Obviously you would be able to select which skills are on your Medal, and you can name it. I love this idea - in fact, a case could be made that this would be the only reward needed in this event (rather than the choice between the other several things).

"Top lists: there will be 3 top lists. Most victories, most builds, and a fun stat, most unconscious pets. Every top lists will show the top 10 in that category, and they will get a small extra reward at the end of the event. Most victories: xeno combat medal (+10 execution), Most building: medal of doom (+ building, -1 sec to hunt), Most unconscious pets: squeezing medal (+1% soul energy squeezing)"

These are the medals discussed, the top 10 medals. Not to say that Viridels idea is bad in any way, but I think the idea is to have a number of choices of rewards for participation (in different tiers depending on level of participation) and then have an extra reward to the top ten contributors in all three categories: A medal.

All, in all I think that they want the rewards from the event to be less permanent relics and more other things so that they can do the event more often, and people will have a good incentive to participate every time. Think about the Zarknod event: If you got all three relics, would you participate as much if it ever came around again?

The relics would most definitely be different. With a chance to acquire the missed ones during the first phase.

Idézet: Random - 2011.01.13. 09:48:08

I just re-read this and I am not sure I understand it correctly. How exactly does the building part of the event work?
Just to clarify:
I can build from SE (a certain level dependent amount for 1 build point) or with mana-construction (all my SP for 1 build point).
Depending on how many Build points I have at the end of the event I can choose a reward.
I can build once per day with mana-construction.
I can build as many times as I like per day from SE <--- Is this true? In the original preview of the event I understood it as once per day from SE, but the post above can be read as if I can build as many times per day as i want from SE.