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Name of topic: Complaints on players
irritatingInv_

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Re: Complaints on players
241. post - 2010.12.22. 22:30:43 (Reply to post #240 of LydonB.)
Quote: LydonB - 2010.12.22. 22:19:20

And yes, I do have an idea of how he is doing it, yet I ain't going to utter a single word or we'll have others exploiting it.


exploit = cheat
or
clever use of game mechanics?

just to make sure we're on the same page
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much likedLydonB

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Re: Complaints on players
242. post - 2010.12.22. 22:36:34
Referring to exploit = cheat; or making use of something in order to gain an advantage.

It's not a bug or game mechanic and is extremely easy and quick to do. Yet, as most of you have now noticed; these things can be tracked via server logs.
This post was modified by LydonB at 2010.12.22. 22:37:10
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irritatingInv_

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Re: Complaints on players
243. post - 2010.12.22. 22:40:58 (Reply to post #242 of LydonB.)
Quote: LydonB - 2010.12.22. 22:36:34
Referring to exploit = cheat; or making use of something in order to gain an advantage.

It's not a bug or game mechanic and is extremely easy and quick to do. Yet, as most of you have now noticed; these things can be tracked via server logs.


if you're referring to "while 1; attack(cow); sleep 10; done" it would be very noisy and stupid. even replacing the sleep 10 with sleep RANDOM%15 would still be pretty obvious.
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much likedLydonB

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Re: Complaints on players
244. post - 2010.12.22. 22:46:39 (Reply to post #243 of Inv_.)
Quote: Inv_ - 2010.12.22. 22:40:58
Quote: LydonB - 2010.12.22. 22:36:34
Referring to exploit = cheat; or making use of something in order to gain an advantage.

It's not a bug or game mechanic and is extremely easy and quick to do. Yet, as most of you have now noticed; these things can be tracked via server logs.


if you're referring to "while 1; attack(cow); sleep 10; done" it would be very noisy and stupid. even replacing the sleep 10 with sleep RANDOM%15 would still be pretty obvious.




Nope, no knowledge of any sort of programming is needed to do this. Ordinary Joe can pull it off.

If you know what I'm talking about, please don't post it here. We don't want another case of the sort popping up.
This post was modified by LydonB at 2010.12.22. 22:48:46
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irritatingBash Chelik

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Re: Complaints on players
245. post - 2010.12.22. 22:47:33
this is getting rather tiresome
lets leave bad blood behind
it`s xmas soon, then new year, then xmas again
about mspiggy, we will see what will admins find out about her
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irritatingInv_

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Re: Complaints on players
246. post - 2010.12.22. 22:53:17 (Reply to post #244 of LydonB.)
Quote: LydonB - 2010.12.22. 22:46:39

If you know what I'm talking about, please don't post it here. We don't want another case of the sort popping up.


while i don't agree that this is such case, <sarcasm>i do love with security through obscurity*</sarcasm>; will not mention a thing.

*it has proven to be a valid model
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
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popularDakaanMale

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Re: Complaints on players
247. post - 2010.12.22. 23:05:07
Not let me put my 5 cents in it by making a comparison to another game i played. I ask the players not take this personal but i find it hard to believe that there are no bug abusing or cheats or helping programs involved because it's 99% impossible to attack at seconds.
I base this statement from experience in online games and to make that comparison here goes nothing:

Before starting to play Doomlord i played another game (i wont disclose the name for obvious reasons). In that game a player can be attacked at exactly 60 minutes from a previous attack, no matter if the player attacked or was attacked. In that game i was part of one of the most successful clans and alliances and we where about 10-15 players that we used to share "cow-lists". This means that if one of us got a "milking cow" we put that one into a excel spreadsheet on google (name and time of attack), in other words we knew EXACTLY when that player wont be safe anymore and believe me we where attacking with 1 minute earlier by refreshing the page. This means that the player wont stand a chance against us, but surprisingly most of the players that where online escaped us. Why ? Because they where faster, because my internet lagged, because the server lagged, but from a list of 20-30 players or let's put it this way from 10-15 players attacking 10-15 different targets only 1 made a successful attack.

By comparing that game where we knew EXACTLY when to attack with this game where a player can APPROXIMATE the time when a victim is out of safety and that IF the victim didn't used a potion, this will reduce your chances from slim to none to get a clean hit within seconds on a player that was under 15% HP. Yes you can get 1 maybe 2 clean hits from time to time, it can happen, but with certain players in here it was a rule and nobody is that lucky (i can't say "that good" due to the approximations and potion usage wildcard).

So yes my simple logic put me to the same conclusion most of the victims draw, certain players use cheats in here.
This post was modified by Dakaan at 2010.12.22. 23:07:53
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much likedManannan Mac LirMale

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Re: Complaints on players
248. post - 2010.12.22. 23:18:24
Hum can I guess which game I wonder......
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averageMax PayneMale

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Re: Complaints on players
249. post - 2010.12.23. 01:33:35
You are a big swindler MSPiggy!
I hope so not finally exclude.
We are not waiting back up.
Vortex.
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much likedImLittleJon

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Re: Complaints on players
250. post - 2010.12.23. 01:56:44 (Reply to post #227 of Bash Chelik.)
Quote: Bash Chelik - 2010.12.22. 19:09:00
she was in carpacio before homless
and i could say she does not know anything


It really bugs me when people try to win debating points using fallacious arguments. MsPiggy left Carpacio all of about 2 weeks after you joined, about 6 months ago. That's hardly a basis to make it look like you're an authority on what she does or doesn't know.

Besides which, although it may be true that she doesn't have a clue how to write a script, that doesn't prove she isn't using a script that someone else wrote.
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much likedImLittleJon

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Re: Complaints on players
251. post - 2010.12.23. 02:10:32 (Reply to post #241 of Inv_.)
Quote: Inv_ - 2010.12.22. 22:30:43
exploit = cheat
or
clever use of game mechanics?

just to make sure we're on the same page


Let's posit for the sake of argument that the observed behavior (hitting people within a second or two of exiting safety through unpredictable means, such as healing potions or Constitution equipment) is a result of some kind of clever use of game mechanics, and not anything that is explicitly banned. Does that make it all good in your view? Something like this would obviously be banned if the admins were aware of it. So, to me, taking advantage of something like that is just as morally reprehensible as doing something that is actually forbidden. MsPiggy was a top player before she began exploiting this whatever it is; she didn't need to go down this road. Like Ciphas, I had a cordial relationship with MsPiggy once - the three of us had a fun rivalry going for a while - and I feel disappointed that she decided to play this way.
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hatedpetel87

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Re: Complaints on players
252. post - 2010.12.23. 05:21:52 (Reply to post #227 of Bash Chelik.)
Quote: Bash Chelik - 2010.12.22. 19:09:00

she was in carpacio before homless


I think I have a good conspiracy theory regarding MsPiggy. I suspect that Carpacio is teaching its members how to cheat. When MsPiggy joined she got the necessary knowledge and left the clan. Other members were not happy and started roumors about her cheating to make her banned. In the meanwhile they stopped cheating for some time to avoid the source of cheating being revealed.
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likeddark22Male

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Re: Complaints on players
253. post - 2010.12.23. 05:34:31
petel

On topic this bickering is now useless, everybody wanted situation cleared up and it is getting cleared up now, we just have to wait and see.
Its hard to push anything to the mods so I don't think few players complaining is what got Piggy temp banned, if anything it just drew attention to him. I understand that if you are high profile player it could concern you if temp banning is based just on few people bickering on forus but I doubt this is the case.
Anyway all I hope for now is that we will get decent explanation why Piggy got banned/unbanned in very short time, cause just banning w/o explanation would leave as sour taste in my mouth as if I just got hit second I got out of low HP.
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averageViridel

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Re: Complaints on players
254. post - 2010.12.23. 09:02:51 (Reply to post #230 of Inv_.)
Quote: Inv_ - 2010.12.22. 20:30:02
Quote: Miklos - 2010.12.22. 17:01:44

About MsPiggy. We took very seriously the complaints, and monitored and logged every action for the past 2 months. After careful examination and analyzation of this data, we decided to suspend this character temporarily. Further investigation will decide if this suspension will become permanent.


you can't be serious.. so to suspend an account all is takes is a few ppl QQing about some player? ok.. here goes :

I want top 25 players in W2 suspended (yes, even me). It sooo obvious they cheat cause .. you know.. they're top 25.

And i thought this was a serious game



There is a rule of logic in these games - the 10/20/30. Generally, the best player will be about 10% better than the 2nd best player, due to more time, money and skill - there is always someone who is just REALLY good at all facets of the game. However, if they are 20% better, then that gets suspicious - multi accounting, botting, outside assistance (legal or not), scripts... When you break into 30%, there becomes a problem - on a server with 15000 players, nobody can be THAT much better than EVERYONE else. If that were the case, ALL the Hungarian Server players would be utterly dominating here, because they would already know all the tricks.

One very easy stat to look at is Loot-per-Win. Yes, you can build an elite spider, one that never loses (Ciphas is a good example, note that his stats & skills are HUNDREDS below Piggies, and he still has the best W/L ratio - that is a SMART player). But here's the key - How much do they gain per duel (win or loss, all is totaled, since losses count against the total SE gain)

Character name Level Clan Victory Defeat TOTAL SE/Fight
MsPiggy 45 Homless Beauties And Dorks 6668 449 10,800,000 1517.5
Lady Foul 32 Homless Beauties And Dorks 2922 344 2,300,000 704.2
Doubleh 42 Homless Beauties And Dorks 4255 251 2,800,000 621.4
Ciphas 47 Vortex 7132 270 4,100,000 553.9
Manunkind 34 Homless Beauties And Dorks 2360 194 1,200,000 469.9
Little Jon 44 GuGu 3298 309 1,600,000 443.6
Foenix 31 Gravediggaz 5740 283 2,400,000 398.5
Solness 30 Homless Beauties And Dorks 3629 487 1,600,000 388.7
Zankou 37 Careless Conjurers 2892 726 1,300,000 359.3
Sandman 14 DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER 3312 309 1,300,000 359
Kyril 37 Careless Conjurers 4140 410 1,600,000 351.6
Hunchback 45 DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER 4171 540 1,600,000 339.6
Squatter 18 Rebles 2489 206 891,900 330.9
Nemno 33 Dogs Of War 2773 303 947,200 307.9
Dezumak 47 Homless Beauties And Dorks 3322 735 1,200,000 295.8
PaSy 39 Vortex 2350 700 837,600 274.6
Sacrosanct 48 GuGu 3533 1102 1,200,000 258.9
Trackur 46 Homless Beauties And Dorks 2888 347 807,300 249.6
Salafer 30 Brothers of the Light 2538 257 628,300 224.8
Geodor 41 DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER 2701 713 747,500 219


The formatting sucks, but here's the key. Piggy gains 1517 PER DUEL. #2 gains 704 per Duel. #10 gains 359 per duel.

This means that Piggy is 53.5% better than ANYONE ELSE in the top 50. More than twice the player than any other player. How likely is that? 15000 players, and someone is more than 2x superior (while claiming to never buy Stones).

Also interestingly, look at the clan of 4 of the top 5 players on the above list. There are legitimate possibilities for this - but this could also be the spreading around of a cheat system. But with Piggy almost THREE times better than ANYONE NOT in her clan???

I'm not saying WHAT the cheat is, or how it's being implemented - but these games just don't work this way... Nobody is THAT much smarter / luckier / more efficient than EVERYONE else... And the fact that the majority of it is localized inside one clan should be of great concern to the administration.

I don't expect that Piggy will be part of this world much longer - but the Admin needs to find the loophole that is being abused, in a hurry.
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hatedpetel87

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Re: Complaints on players
255. post - 2010.12.23. 10:26:05
I have no idea where this rule of 10/20/30 comes from but your explanation is very good Viridel.
The best looter in world 1, Lord Destiny gets 1218SE per duel. LydonB 876 and Kalamona 978. That gives us total of 3072.
Top 3 from your list gains total of 2843.
I picked my 3 people randomly, I do not want to go through all the calculations you did.
What I am trying to prove here is that MsPiggy reached an insane advantage but it could be only because there is many many poor players in W2 who does not protect their SE. It could be some weird legal advantage that she found (like the advantage Lord Destiny uses in W1). Or it could be as well cheating.
I trust that administrators and programist will make the right decision. I would like to apply to all interested players to not take sides and try to convince others about her guilt or lack of it. It does not make sense. People responsible for making decision about her dismissal will do it soon enough and hopefully provide satisfying informations for all of us.
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much likedCiphasMale

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Re: Complaints on players
256. post - 2010.12.23. 10:44:24
I hope that people will take sides and start flaming also more conspiracy ideas would be nice

Really reading this topic is like watching some soap opera or reading a conspiracy book . And if Mspiggy turns out to be a Mrspiggy it will be more fun to read ( altho i will be a little disapointed because i was fantasizing about a possible affair with her in wich i will turn her to my clan and also learn the secret to becoming a robber baron ) .

So i am waiting with interest to see the end of this ...
This post was modified by Ciphas at 2010.12.23. 11:49:37
Score: 7.50
irritatingInv_

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Re: Complaints on players
257. post - 2010.12.23. 10:52:59 (Reply to post #254 of Viridel.)
Quote: Viridel - 2010.12.23. 09:02:51

This means that Piggy is 53.5% better than ANYONE ELSE in the top 50. More than twice the player than any other player. How likely is that? 15000 players, and someone is more than 2x superior (while claiming to never buy Stones).

Also interestingly, look at the clan of 4 of the top 5 players on the above list. There are legitimate possibilities for this - but this could also be the spreading around of a cheat system. But with Piggy almost THREE times better than ANYONE NOT in her clan???


You didn't just call us a clan of cheats did you? If you did, I'd have to use the same faulty logic and call DoW a clan of stupid ppl; but I won't... yet.

I suggested a new (mandatory) acceleration option to the admins. It would be a "do random stuff" button, and it would allow ppl to click it several times and be done for the day. When ppl are comfortable with using this button, some features from the game will be removed : first the skill system then the clan buildings and their bonuses, the ultimate goal is to remove everything (except the buy ancient stones option ofc). When this will be over, all characters will be the same. I forgot to point out that without such a system, ppl would need to actually use some kind of strategy and specialize; possible specializations include : duelers, hunters, multi accounts for some emerald clans and helping them build, etc.

I would also like to point out that Diamonds are Forever in world 2 has built more than the #2 clan by10.76%; granted it's not 50% more, but they should obviously be investigated. Now.. turning our attention to the level highscores.. top 4 players include 2 from DoW... while in the other 2 spots are players from different clans. that means DoW has 100% more players in top4 than any other clan and since 100% >> 50% => you and Dakaan should be banned. Let me know if this makes sense... I'm sure that if I try hard enough I can find evidence of cheating everywhere..
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
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hatedpetel87

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Re: Complaints on players
258. post - 2010.12.23. 11:12:52 (Reply to post #256 of Ciphas.)
Quote: Ciphas - 2010.12.23. 10:44:24
I hope that people will take sides and start flaming also more conspiracy ideas would be nice


After reading Inv_'s post I can not agree more It is a masterpiece.

How about a theory where everything depends on the characters nickname. MsPiggy is good because she has a title in front of it, so is LordDestiny. A lord and a miss has to be treaten better and get more SE when dueling
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much likedLydonB

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Re: Complaints on players
259. post - 2010.12.23. 11:48:24
Petel, your calculations are incorrect.

You are not taking the time frame into consideration, nor the possibility of Energy Harness. Let alone the crystal horde.

As for me, I have energy harness maxxed; meaning that currently my minimum SE win is set at 1k.


Also, let's lower the flame. If the admins hadn't found anything suspicious then there wouldn't be a suspended account. So logic states that there's obviously something.
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hatedpetel87

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Re: Complaints on players
260. post - 2010.12.23. 12:20:32 (Reply to post #259 of LydonB.)
Quote: LydonB - 2010.12.23. 11:48:24
Petel, your calculations are incorrect.

You are not taking the time frame into consideration, nor the possibility of Energy Harness. Let alone the crystal horde.

As for me, I have energy harness maxxed; meaning that currently my minimum SE win is set at 1k.


Also, let's lower the flame. If the admins hadn't found anything suspicious then there wouldn't be a suspended account. So logic states that there's obviously something.


My post is there to show that there is no correct calculations and to point out that the decision is in hands of people who has all the informations (unreachable for other players). It is a small appeal to other players to stop digging, it does not make sense any longer.
And all of that just because of one little piggy
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