@warkeeper:

Welcome to the early days of quiz submitting and how it is still a bit screwed up. Essentially, try a different one.

Idézet: stekkos - 2010.09.17. 10:06:13

Yes, it really is. There are millions of people out there who know that fact. Any gardening book with a section on companion planting mentions the fact that kale, broccoli, and cabbage (along with kohlrabi, cauliflower, and one or two others) are all the same plant. I've seen it mentioned in several cookbooks, too. This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It's a subject that you personally don't know about, so you just assume that it's not general knowledge. That's just human nature, and we need to stop pretending that that's not what happens. Perhaps there's not a very big overlap between players of DL and vegetable gardeners, but I doubt there's many native Burundians playing DL, and I just got a question on the currency of Burundi. I admit I put in some technical jargon in the question, but a) I did that to make it easier to answer via Google, and b) the intent of the question was perfectly clear by looking at the answers, even if you didn't know the word "cultivar" or the species name.

Idézet: comingfromothergamess - 2010.09.17. 03:23:55

That's just a ridiculous statement on the face of it. Just because some people are ignorant in a particular area, and they believe their ignorance to be universal, the fact that they present that viewpoint doesn't prove anything. You can find a lot of people who believe that the Moon landings were all faked and would happily debate that point. Does that mean that a question about the Moon landing should be rejected?

Idézet: ImLittleJon - 2010.09.16. 20:02:04

Just a hint: try using a more common name than "Brassica oleracea" I think that if you had used "cabbage" it might have gone through.

Oh boy. First off, as you can see throughout the thread, plenty of questions that 'were accepted' could easily fall under the special group excuse. Used too often for some questions, not enough for others. That aside..


General knowledge. It can be generally that broccolli and cabbage fall under being a plant. Kale possibly falls under 'see it, but not know the name of it' type thing. My experience with kale is the type of kale that is put in the salad bar of restaurants along with fake fruit and such to decorate ( but not be consumed ) the salad bar. When you go into more specifics about something ( especially if you use species name, certain words that fall under the specifics category thing, etc. ), things leave the general knowledge area and more into the special group of people. Let's look at a better example that brings in more people than 'just us'.

Lots of people know that Obama passed health care reform, right? Now do they know the exact legal of the healthcare reform? Exact last fine print detail? Anything that might have been 'packaged' / removed from original submittion with the healthcare reform so that that particular party member(s) would vote for it? Not as many. In english, it might be considered 'general knowledge' that Obama passed health care reform. It is not 'general knowledge' as to what was exactly in it.

Granted I wiki'ed the species name ( copy and paste ) and it took me straight to the article for it and answers. However, if you have to google it, wiki it, 'whatever search you do to search for it', then it is leaving the realm of general knowledge. Longer it takes to 'google/search' for it, then the more of the leaving the realm of general knowledge.

Now let's take a look at the question.

'Which of these is not a cultivar of the species brassica oleracea'

Amongst the answers: People might have a general idea of what broccoli and cabbage might be, and (possibly ) less than that amount of people can guess what kale is, but chard doesn't seem to be used as often as say broccoli. Not cultivar and Brassica oleracea. This atleast one ( and likely both ) being 'terms' that they have to look up ( leaving the realm of general knowledge ). Braassica Oleracea to know what the is being asked about. Cultivar to know what is being requested as of Brassica Oleracea.

Now let's rephrase that question.

'Which of these is not of the same plant species ( Brassica oleracea ) ' ?

There they only have to look up that name ( which isn't general knowledge ) and within the article that is being looked at, they already know what to look for within the article in respect to the question. They may not even have to know what all the answers are exactly and still are able to answer the question.

Another thing encompassing all this in the nice time limit of 'equal to one hunt' for each question. Some of the questions are easily 'google-able.' Some are not.

And so far we have an evaluator and another player ( dunno if also an evaluator ) that basically agree with me. Stekkos even suggested that you take the word of cultivar and make it into a question.

If you still don't get the point. I can break down the Moon landing as another example for ya.

Idézet: ImLittleJon - 2010.09.17. 16:34:28

The word cultivar is not the issue here, it was just a joke.

I never say that something is not general knowleadge because i do not know it. I said that because it is not something people know about, unless they deal with the subject. Any gardening book mentions it, but why do you take for granded people IN GENERAL read gardening books? Also the wording of the question does make the question harder to understand, and i do not mean by me. I get it perfectly even if i would have to search for the answer. I am asking my self: "If i walk down the street and start asking this question how many would know what i am talking about (let alone answer)? comingfromothergamess suggestion actually is very good, that way the question is clear and simple for even a complete plant illiterate person.

Idézet: stekkos - 2010.09.18. 05:24:23

This is exactly my point. You do say something is not general knowledge because you don't know it, but you won't admit it. Unless it's a subject that you do know something about, you are unqualified to judge how general the knowledge is. I'm not saying you could do any better than you are; I'm saying it's literally an impossible task. Nobody can do it, by definition.

Idézet: stekkos - 2010.09.18. 05:24:23

I never claimed that people in general read gardening books. There are billions of people who don't. But there are also millions of people who do. The same logic could be applied to any subject that's in the quiz. There are billions of people who haven't seen Harry Potter, or read the Bible, etc., etc. Where do you draw the line for how many people are familiar with the subject before it qualifies as "general knowledge"?

Idézet: stekkos - 2010.09.18. 05:24:23

I see what you are saying. What I was trying to do was consider 2 groups of people: gardeners and non-gardeners. Gardeners would know the answer just by looking at the choices. Non-gardeners would have to google it, regardless of the wording. So my goal with the wording was to make the answer as easy to find through google as possible, so I cut/pasted the terminology from a page with the answer on it. To me, as a user, I'd rather see a question that I can't understand but can google quickly than a clear question that isn't as easily googled.

Idézet: comingfromothergamess - 2010.09.17. 22:34:12

I would actually say that every single question could fall under the special group excuse. It's a question of where do you draw the line?

Idézet: comingfromothergamess - 2010.09.17. 22:34:12

Precisely. That's your experience. That's the place that you are coming from. A lot of other people have significantly more experience with kale than that (notably Obama, for one, to tie in to other parts of your point ). But the fact that you have only passing familiarity with it inherently colors your opinion on how general this knowledge is.

Idézet: comingfromothergamess - 2010.09.17. 22:34:12

Sure, there are some questions relating to that example that I would call too specific. But I'm guessing that there are some that I would call general enough (lack of public option, the whole Ben Nelson Nebraska thing) that you might call too specific. So a) the general/specific issue is just too fuzzy. And b) if someone submitted a question about the public option or the Ben Nelson thing, what would you do as an evaluator if you were from Hungary and didn't have any exposure to American news? How could you evaluate which side of the line those questions should fall on? You would have no basis for judgment other than what you could google within the 5 minute time limit.

Idézet: comingfromothergamess - 2010.09.17. 22:34:12

This statement, I could not possibly disagree with more. Nobody knows everything about all topics. You get a question on a topic you happen not to know, you have to google it. That doesn't say anything about how general the knowledge is. What matters is how many people would know anything about the topic. As stekkos puts it, if you walk down the street, how many would be able to answer it? But the problem is, it depends on what street you're walking down. Obviously, a lot more people on my street could answer it than on stekkos's street. But all stekkos has to judge by is his street. He's never been to my street.

Idézet: comingfromothergamess - 2010.09.17. 22:34:12

That's definitely clearer. But do you really think clarity plays into the general/special issue? I think the same people would know the answer with either wording.

I was talking to my Grandma while reading this page. Since she is an avid gardener I decided to ask her your question. She asked why she would know something like that. So, I asked her the simplified suggestion and she knew the answer immediately. You have been given suggestions it servers little purpose to keep arguing the point.

BTW, I agree with Stekkos that "cultivar" makes a good question by itself.

Thank you ChaoticGemini's grandma for trumping majority of his points. Point of quiz being screwy, I agree with. This could be all be solved by...what now?

Trying the submitted suggestions and seeing how it works and taking into account my three 'step' process to ( not weightloss, but.. ) the Final Fantasy Question. How being too abbreviated ( or in jon's case too specific/vocabulary ) in regards to concept of general knowledge and how when I spelled it all the way out ( aka simplified it ), the question got through.

WTF?!
Why the hell was it rejected?!?!

Which animal is considered the largest terrestrial arthropod?

Canadian Giant Spider
Coconut Crab
Egyptian Scorpion
Grey Spider

The question is valued as "Bad, incorrect question"!


I sincerely think this whole question thing is not good for the game.
There is absolutely no criteria in the question selection.
I have come across wrong questions, VERY poorly written questions, some mathematical questions (which I understand is not allowed since I had a mathematical question rejected for that reason) and dubious questions.

On top of that, the whole concept of having the questions makes no sense. What does it have to do with the game?
Anyway, regardless of making sense or not, I would be willing to bet that more people stop playing than join the game because of the questions.

So, due to all the problems and the very little benefit, I am inclined to say that having the questions in the game is a poor business decision.

Cruel.

P.S. Here is the article where I got the info from for the "smart guy" who rejected the question:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18600-zoologger-the-largest-arthropod-to- prowl-the-land.html

Maybe you should have put 'in the world' in the question?

Idézet: comingfromothergamess - 2010.09.19. 05:55:54

"Which animal is considered the largest terrestrial arthropod?"

This isn't clear enough? We have to specify that we're not talking terrestrial Mars or terrestrial Venus.

I agree with whomever it was that said that the Quiz really has nothing to do with the game itself - and at this point, it is a FAR greater negative than positive.

So all I can do is keep telling people to take the automatic SE, DON'T write questions... And don't bother posting on the forum in the hopes that it will be read by someone able to make a change - those Game Admins have come right out and said they don't have time to read the Forum.

You might be thinking of the wrong meaning. Terrestrial in the manner of his question is land-based, as opposed to underwater species or 'both combined'. Not space-y definition of the word. As in 'Which animal is considered the largest land-based arthropod?'

I was trying to aim toward 'bad' rather than 'incorrect' question. Asking what is the largest ____ in the world is different than what is the largest ____ in North America.

Idézet: comingfromothergamess - 2010.09.19. 07:03:49

In English, "largest" means "there is nothing larger than". If no city, country, continent, planet, universe is mentioned, it means the largest of them all.

I don't know if you were the one who rejected the question, but this is a VERY LAME excuse for a VERY POOR decision (either by you or whoever took it.)

As for me, I have given up proposing questions. It is not worth being pissed by ridiculous rejections.

Cruel.

The question already exists: "With reports listing it up to 30 pounds and 6 feet (1.8 m) across, what is the largest land-living arthropod?"

what is Big Ben?

a professional Wrestler
a famous Clock
a Tornado
a variety of Apple

The question is valued as "Bad, incorrect question"!
Spelling mistakes in question or answers.

what spelling mistake do i have there?

@Cruel01:

In English, the post you quoted mainly aimed at Viridel's post. Also, notice the 'maybe' part of the post that tried to help yours. Meaning it might not have been the thing you needed. Just the when I looked up the question within wiki, it made note of 'the world's largest.' Hence why possibly what you needed was to stick 'in the world' at the end. Supported ChaoticGemini's post, that has it be more 'clear/less vocabulary' as well as sticking a statistic in there to help a person search for the correct 'largest land-living'.

I am not an evaluator, I am just trying to help get the question submitted correctly. Though according to Chaotic's post, it was already submitted, accepted, and in English.

@D00ml0rd:

Within those answers, wrestler, clock, tornado, and apple do not get capitalized.

As I explained earlier, "largest" is "largest".
If I ask you who the best football player is, you will not ask me back: "in which team?", "in which league?", "in which country?". Best is best. No "in the world" needed.
As per the question being part of the database, that was not what happened as I lost the right to ask another question.

Cruel.

Different evaluator's different calls. Also, you have to take into account who you are asking ( much moreso in person than on forums ), cause on forums people, you ask that and people recognize NFL. Ask that in a casual conversation, might mistake it for soccer ( though that version of the word is spelled some kinda marked u instead of double o, and a bol instead of ball and slightly different pronunciation ).

Also, asking me 'who the best footplayer is' is not a proper format for submitting to the quiz. Not saying that you tried to submit that, but there is some kinda proper format for questions to be submitted to be able to be accepted. This is with us learning from trial and error.