actually manukind you are completly wrong.
first of all in mimion battles that you mention all the time you dont get dragged on the torture chamber.if you wan to make them the same then in duels with subplasma you couldnt get drugged on the torture chamber.by hiding the report if you have a chance to escape from the torture chamber you dont know it.
second even in the challenge monsters YOU DO HAVE A REPORT.so why hide the duels report that actually effect you?
third how can you tell that this didnt happen if the duel reports are hidden?
fourth it is not an excibition as u call it since it actually denies you the option that the same building(torture chamber) gives you and that is to try to escape.if you want to make it like an excibition then you couldnt be dragged to the torture chamber,but if this was the case you would stop targeting low lvls to drag them in your torture chamber,right?

Expertly explained, that's exactly what we are saying!

Thank you for summarizing it.

Dionysos,

4. [sounding like a broken record] a high-level player cannot "take" ANY soul energy from a low-level player, period. the only way for the high-level player to attack a low-level player is with subplasma, and subplasma attacks steal no soul energy.

3. low-level players planning to duel should carry some soul energy on them so their rewards don't get capped on their normal attacks.

valorian, being dragged into someone's torture chamber costs you nothing, as in zero, nada, zilch.

that how you see it.again you still didnt answer.we have the monster challenge reports which actually dont effect at all and the battle reports that actually someone drags you to the torture chamber are hidden.besides manukind does the building give you the option to escape yes or no?yes.can you try to escape if you dont know that you have been dragged into a torture chamber?no.so the option from a building is eliminated to support that kind of attacks,correct?so instead of protecting low lvls from that kind of attacks we actually ebcourage that kind of attacks?is this your logic?

valorian, no, that is the factual answer: subplasma attacks cost the target no soul energy. that is not just how i see it. that is not just my opinion. that is how the game works. i'm not sure why you struggle so much with it.

we do not get monster challenge reports when our monsters are challenged. we can see on the monster challenge page who the most recent attacker was however. there is nothing we can do about it and there is no harm, so i don't really care either way. it's just a curiosity.

we do not get minion battle reports at all. our minions being attacked has no impact on us either. so i don't really care.

i understand your point about escaping the torture chamber, and how the absence of subplasma reports prevents the chance for you to try. but your entire tantrum about high level attackers on low level opponents means you would never escape anyway. and if you did, you would receive no reward for doing so, since you received no penalty for getting dragged in, and you received no penalty for the subplasma attack in the first place. this is all about an emotional principle rather than actual game impact. so to be clear, i think you have a point about seeing subplasma attack reports in order to have a chance to escape. i also think it's statistically irrelevant and find your continued perseveration on it fascinating.

i don't know how many times we can have the same conversation. subplasmas increase range for attacks without harming anyone. any attacks on low level players are entirely harm-less. subplasmas do not encourage attacks on low level players. they allow harmless attacks beyond normal range. your insistance that low level players are specifically targeted is simply incorrect, yet you stick to that line anyway. you seem comfortable in the role of victim.

once gain you are wrog manukind.
on the case of minion battles and challenge monsters there is no side effect on the duels there is the torure chamber.so if you think about the lower lvls are paying the high lvls to keep hitting them.want to consider it the same?then in subplasma attacks no dragging would be allowed,if you want to put them all in the same philosophy.
and yet like i already said you can still see the monster challenge reports which actually have no side effect and the duels reports that actually have a side effect is hidden.also let me remind you that subplasma effects are not only made with 200 lvl difference like you do but with less difference that are just out of the range limit,in this case low lvls but strong can escape.but you are right that when someone attacks someone that is 200lvls below him there is no escape.and waht was the solution?encourage those kind of attacks instead of protecting the low lvls from that kind of attacks.by the way since you obviously dont remember when you escape from the torture chamber you dont give anything to the other and you drag him to your torture chamber.although to be honest i dont know if this works if the other is higher lvls than you(outside of your normal range)
you are the one keep saying that harm noone while you see how many players have made complains about your attacks,it is not one or two or from one clan plus for someone that claims that doesnt do that kind of attacks you seem very eager to encourage that kind of attacks.so since as you claim you dont do that kind of attacks why you insist so much to defend them and reject any suggestion that eliminates or reduce them?

so manukind if you dont make that kind of attacks and the low lvls dont have a problem the scarab to be available for all though the relics why are you so negative on that and to any other option that would eliminate that kind of attacks?since according to what you say if you dont do that kind of attacks it will not effect you at all but you are so strongly negative about it

valorian, volume of complaints doesn't change facts. fact: being dragged into the torture chamber benefits the dragger without consequence to the draggee. the SE benefit to the winner does not come from the loser. your unwillingness to accept facts does not change facts.

you cannot drag someone higher level than you into your torture chamber with subplasma. you can only drag higher level players into your torture chamber with normal attacks. you can, as you point out, theoretically escape a higher level torture chamber with subplasma attacks, however.

predator, i literally made the suggestion to Beholder through the in-game help button to add the scarab to the relics page. i just do so aware that that might not be the ideal answer you seem to think it is. it has unintended consequences. i do not approach this game solely to my own benefit.

i'm not going to restate my personal attack guidelines any more. scroll back if you want. i'm over it.

so correct me if i am wrong.the issue with high lvls attacking low lvls to drag them to the torture chamber exist for quite some time.and many complain and many suggestions have been made so far right?so besides hiding the battles reports did any other action took place or any of those suggestions,which from what i understand were rejected,ever found out why those were rejected?

Urul, if you can scroll back far enough, you can find Miklos suggesting players ignore subplasma attacks. he offered language to think of them like training or practice. the only programming change that i'm aware of is the removal of the reports.

Urul, here are two quotes from Miklos, a key Beholder admin:

Quote: Miklos - 2021.07.08. 15:43:51
When a player uses subplasma to attack you, you do not lose any soul energy, nor you suffer any other disadvantage. If you still dislike the mostly role-player concept of torture chamber, there is an item called Scarab of Death, which you can win on the auction and can protect you from this.

Miklos
Administrator
1178 post
Re: General complaint
811. post - 2016.06.04. 18:58:22
Hi,
Subplasma is just a tool to make people able to finish their daily quest who otherwise couldn't due to lack of opponents. Consider it a virtual fight, not a real one. You lose nothing, no soul-energy, no HP, nothing.its a virtual challenge where you can test how much damage you deal to the mightiest, without any risk.
This is totally different from real duels, where you can lose a lot - but there, fights are more fair, you can attack only in your attack range.
So please, take it like a fair sportsman, consider it a kind of cooperative action to help someone achieve something. Maybe one day he will help you in return. If these duel descriptions still disturb you, just ignore them. They have no effect on your gameplay.

this is not a change to reduce or eliminate the unfair fights.secondly the crystal ckan createed so that the high lvls can finish their daily quest who otherwise couldn't due to lack of opponents this is why the crystal clan is not available to thehigh lvls.i think urul still havent met the crystal clan since his lvl is too low.since you drag someone on the torture chamber is not a virtual fight but a real one.
its a virtual challenge where you can test how much damage you deal to the mightiest, without any risk. i dont think that when miklos wrote that manukind was referring to fights between lvl200 vs lvl30.how much damage do you expect fro example urul to make to you?this was refering to battle outside of the normal range where actually a strong low lvl has actually a fighting chance against someone little higher than his normal range.for a fight between a lvl30 with a lvl200 this is pointless and i am sure you understand that.
also let me remind you another comment of miklos that said that from subplasma battles you learn from the higher lvl and you change you strategy,but when was asked what exactly a lvl30 will learn when getting attacked from a lvl200 noone answered not you not miklos not anyone.because the answere is easy.NOTHING.no strategy no items not specific focus on certain stats will give a lvl30 a fighting chance against a lvl200,but honestly if you tell what starategy can a lvl30 can follow against a lvl200 or what xactly does he learn form that fight i am willing to hear it.

urul nothing has been done regarding this issue,except as already stated by manukind also that the battle reports have been hidden.manukind
lets see also those statements from miklos since you mentioned him

Re: General complaint
1142. post - 2023.01.25. 11:47:27
So I don't think we can remove this option. Of course, we could "hide" these attacks, so the attacked players doesn't even know about it - but that would be kind of cheating, wouldn't it?

and then the battler reports disappear

Re: General complaint
1066. post - 2023.01.17. 12:14:48
Consider it that a powerful warrior is willing to practice you, like in the films. You fight with wooden sticks. He will beat you, of course, but you learn from the fight, and you take no wounds.
do you really think that miklos was reffering to a duel between a lvl30 and a lvl200?if you think that manukind pls tell what exactly the lvl30 will learn from that fight?to focus on certain stats?that he have to change his gear to some premium or stronger weapons?what exactly do you think that that kind of duels will teach the new players?i really like to hear your opinion on that.

zodiac1, Miklos was responding to these same complaints back in 2016. subplasmas were harmless then as they are now.

well as you can see also hiding the reports is kind os cheating as miklos also reported at 2023.it was cheating then as it is now
and second i dont think that miklos was referring to battles between lvl30 and lv200 or you think that?or you think that the original purpose of the subplama was the high lvls to attacking playes that are 200 lvls below them?cause as you already posted miklos answered the subplasma intention was not that but to help high lvls finish their daily quest who otherwise couldn't due to lack of opponents and because some players abused that option the crystal clan was created although some high lvl players continued the hitting on low lvls despite that fact that they could finish their daily task with the crystal clan.but you still didnt answer me.do you agree with miklos that a lvl30 will learn something from a duel with a lvl200 and do you think that the subplasma was created to help the high lvl to finish their tasks or to have the high lvl feeding from the game of the low and new players as it is happening?do you agree that should be a limit on how much lower lvls can you hit with subplasma or not?btw in case you didnt know the normal range is increasing as you lvl up(that was said from a developer answer on a ticket although again there is nowhere to find out about that or any announcement made)

subplasma attacks are totally irrelevant to the targets - no harm, no benefit.
i think that every complaint about them is petty.
i will follow whatever rules Beholder imposes.
i will use whatever tools Beholder provides.

well you keep avoiding to answer but i did expected that.as for the no benefit u mean no benefit for the defender cause that attacker no matter what will still getting SE for thise attacks.if you wanna call it no benefirthen subplasma atatcks shouldnt be dragged to the torture chamber then i would agree with you.sice the complains are for high lvl players and you are a high lvl player ofcourse you call them petty

zodiac1, as i said, there is no harm and no benefit to the subplasma target. so, no, i wouldn't say they are learning anything from the duel except perhaps humility.

cheating? the admins hid irrelevant information just as they never showed also-irrelevant information like minion defenses. no one is cheating.

i'd say "petty" is pretty generous way for me to characterize something that's completely moot that you've been complaining about for at least 7 years. subplasma attacks are less than trivial to the defender. they are literally nothing.

the level difference in subplasma attacks is irrelevant because there is no harm. so, no, i do not see any need for Beholder to make changes. subplasmas still function effectively at providing additional targets.

the level difference is important, however, for normal attacks because there is harm.

what makes you think Beholder concluded that players ever abused the subplasma option? i don't recall them saying that that's why they added the crystal clan. they were simply adding more ways for us to play. show me evidence otherwise.

if i were a Beholder admin, i'd tell you guys to stop the complaining or to put your money where your mouth is and walk. lucky for you, they are more diplomatic.

manukind,learning humility?you obviously have no idea what humility is.noone has a problem to loose on a normal fight.but in a duel between a lvl30 vs a lvl200 only the lvl200 learning to be more arrogant and that truth.

as for the cheating in hiding the battle reports it is not my words is actually miklos answer.go back on the comment and see it on yourself it is not so hard even valorian made it more easy for you when pointed out the exact comment with also the date to find it more easy.so not my words but miklos.

what is important or not for the defender especially for the low lvls and from the defender side you cannot talk since you are the attacker and not the defender.besides as you can see the low lvl defenders are actually complaining it is obvious that the attackers like you dont have a problem since they actually gettting paid to keep doing those attacks.

in attacks in normal range noone ever complain.sometimes you loose sometimes you win,besides the game give you ortion toget support from your clan if you have a serious a problem,something that duels will 200 lvl difference also eliminates that dont you think?

if you were a beholder admin you would try to find a solutionkeepin the new players on the game,with possibility to bring more players instead of trying to please few players that abusing an optioon that you added to help them.now regarding you last comment lets see.the actuall players that are actually logging on are less than 100 or close to it and a little more of them active while the other on the catacomves from any reasonthey might have,you marvelous idea is not to find a solution to get the players to get out of the catacomves but half of the players to leave.so basically youperfect isea for a perfect play is for you and to play on an almost empty server.obviously you have no idea of marketing,keeping a game alive and for sure you dont have any idea about humility.your arrogance and megalomania is the only thng in high lvl here